Am I using the correct equipment suffix code?

[midlifeflyer]

On 7/21/2023 at 2:56 PM, Vance Harral said:

For that equipment, the appropriate ICAO equipment codes would be "B, G, R, S, Y".  In addition, your Surveillance code would be "B2, C, U2", and your PBN information would be "B2, C2, D2, O2, S1".

Yes, this is stupid.  No, ATC doesn't care.  There isn't going to be any difference in safety or operational handling in the United States if you just use "G".

I did a FAQ on codes back when this was a hot topic. Maybe it will still help?

==============================

ICAO Flight Plan

Simplest you can get away with to equate with the old /G

SG/U1: Standard equipment (see below) with a Mode C transponder and UAT ADS-B Out.
SG/EU1: Standard equipment (see below) with a Mode S transponder and UAT ADS-B Out;.
SG/CB1: Standard equipment with a Mode C transponder and a 1090ES ASD-B Out.
SG/EB1: Standard equipment with a Mode S transponder and a 1090ES ASD-B Out.

Everything you need for a light GA flight in the US

SGBR/CU1 (Box 10) PBN/C2D2 (Box 18) if your have a Mode C transponder and ADS-B out is UAT
SGBR/CB1 (Box 10) PBN/C2D2 (Box 18) if you have a Mode C transponder and ADS-B out is 1090ES .
SGBR/EU1 (Box 10) PBN/C2D2 (Box 18) if your have a Mode S transponder and ADS-B out is UAT
SGBR/EB1 (Box 10) PBN/C2D2 (Box 18) if you have a Mode S transponder and ADS-B out is 1090ES

Here's the Explanation

Box 10 navigation equipment:

S = "Standard" (VOR, ILS, VHF radio)
G = GPS (Enroute and Terminal Capability)
R = PBN (performance based navigation); requires the "PBN/" entry in Box 18 "Other Info"

     Note: One "could" add B = GPS with APV capability, but its unnecessary. ATC will clear for a approach, not for specific minimums.

Box 10 Surveillance equipment (after the "/")

C = Mode C Transponder
E = Mode S Transponder
U1 = UAT ADS-B Out (like you have a SkyBeacon)
B1 = 1090ES ADS-B Out (like you have a Garmin GTX345)
     Note: If you also have ADS-B In, there are codes for that as well. But to the extent the US ATC system cares what you list at all, it only cares about ADS-B Out capability.

Box 18 Other Information

PBN/C2D2
C2 = RNAV 2 capability (T routes)
D2 = RNAV 1 capability (RNAV SIDs & STARs)
     Note: Perhaps obviously, if you have RNAV1 (not more than a 1 NM error) capability, you also have RNAV 2 (not more than a 2 NM error) capability as well. From unofficial sources, the US system takes that into consideration, but that may not be true for other countries. So while just D2 is probably enough, one might as well ad the C2 unless they run out of room (there is a max of 8 PBN codes)

But Remember...

Your equipment must be certified to perform the tasks in order to properly use the codes. As examples, you will not use Equipment Code B (GPS with APV capability ) with a non-WAAS GPS, and you will not use PBN Code D2 (RNAV 1) if your unit cannot retrieve RNAV DPs and STARs from the database.

 

Obviously there are many more codes but there are a number of them we don't really use domestically.
Other stuff.

C2 = GPS RNAV 2 capability
D2 = GPS RNAV 1 capability
S1 = RNP APCH capability In the US, it is subsumed into B, GPS with APV but arguably, S1 is the "better" code given the RNP APCH required equipment notation in the charts. 
S2 = RNP APCH capability with Baro VNAV
O2 = RNP 1 GNSS

============================== 

[Fly Boomer]

Could be out of date, but ForeFlight Support says:

Not all pilots need to use PBN codes. In fact, if you only file today using the FAA/Domestic Flight plan format where there is no such capability, you may never need to use a PBN code. Specifying PBN codes adds capabilities beyond what it was possible to specify using an FAA/Domestic flight plan. So if you can fly a particular approach today when filing an FAA/Domestic flight plan, you will still be able to request and fly the procedure without the need to specify a PBN code.

[kortopates]

19 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Could be out of date, but ForeFlight Support says:

Not all pilots need to use PBN codes. In fact, if you only file today using the FAA/Domestic Flight plan format where there is no such capability, you may never need to use a PBN code. Specifying PBN codes adds capabilities beyond what it was possible to specify using an FAA/Domestic flight plan. So if you can fly a particular approach today when filing an FAA/Domestic flight plan, you will still be able to request and fly the procedure without the need to specify a PBN code.

Since supposedly there no longer a FAA Domestic flight plan form these days, I'd say its out of date guidance. But Foreflight has always been this way - i think they don't want to take calls/emails asking for help on this.

But the reality is that nobody really cares what you file for all the new capability codes beyond the basic equipment code e.g. : SGBR and surveillance equip codes e.g., EB2. But I've been doing it for years. Its part of the adventure.

The day when these codes get put to use is still coming. 

But you'd think any pilot with any sense of pride would endeavor to learn and understand them since its been several years ago since we've made the switch to ICAO. I realize some pilots of many years don't want to see changes. I fly internationally a lot and see US GA pilots struggling all the time to fill out their ICAO flight plan on paper since they can't use their favorite E6B app to file in another country.  

[PT20J]

49 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Since supposedly there no longer a FAA Domestic flight plan form these days, I'd say its out of date guidance. But Foreflight has always been this way - i think they don't want to take calls/emails asking for help on this.

But the reality is that nobody really cares what you file for all the new capability codes beyond the basic equipment code e.g. : SGBR and surveillance equip codes e.g., EB2. But I've been doing it for years. Its part of the adventure.

The day when these codes get put to use is still coming. 

But you'd think any pilot with any sense of pride would endeavor to learn and understand them since its been several years ago since we've made the switch to ICAO. I realize some pilots of many years don't want to see changes. I fly internationally a lot and see US GA pilots struggling all the time to fill out their ICAO flight plan on paper since they can't use their favorite E6B app to file in another country.  

For me it's always a challenge to figure stuff out, though I do think the FAA could have made this a lot easier. 

ForeFlight does a pretty good job and it worked flawlessly filing VFR in Canada on a recent flight. According to ForeFlight: 

"ForeFlight supports filing IFR flights to and from the US and within Canada, Caribbean, Bahamas, and Mexico, as well as within and between all EUROCONTROL member states and Greenland using the ICAO flight plan format." and "File intra-Canada and cross-border VFR flight plans between the US and Canada, as well as within and between most EUROCTONTROL member states. VFR flight plans should be opened in the country of departure and closed in the destination country."

One way to learn this is to create a flight plan in ForeFlight and then look at the ICAO form that ForeFlight creates. One thing that trips up a lot of people is that ICAO requires DCT in the route between direct to waypoints. 

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

i think they don't want to take calls/emails asking for help on this.

And FF shouldn't be offering much assistance.  How to do it and where to do it are about it.  What goes info goes in needs to come from your Avionics guy (and they don't much like to do it either ).  FF has no clue what you have in your plane, so if you say you think you have A B C, they should only tell you were to find the place to put A B C and nothing more.

 

[midlifeflyer]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

Could be out of date, but ForeFlight Support says:

Not all pilots need to use PBN codes. In fact, if you only file today using the FAA/Domestic Flight plan format where there is no such capability, you may never need to use a PBN code. Specifying PBN codes adds capabilities beyond what it was possible to specify using an FAA/Domestic flight plan. So if you can fly a particular approach today when filing an FAA/Domestic flight plan, you will still be able to request and fly the procedure without the need to specify a PBN code.

Interestingly, looking over my FAQ, the one thing I would change is this note.

 

5 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

PBN/C2D2
C2 = RNAV 2 capability (T routes)
D2 = RNAV 1 capability (RNAV SIDs & STARs)
     Note: Perhaps obviously, if you have RNAV1 (not more than a 1 NM error) capability, you also have RNAV 2 (not more than a 2 NM error) capability as well. From unofficial sources, the US system takes that into consideration, but that may not be true for other countries. So while just D2 is probably enough, one might as well ad the C2 unless they run out of room (there is a max of 8 PBN codes)

 I haven't taken additonal steps to verify, but I have heard pilots who have not included C2  say they have filed T-routes  in their flight plans and them rejected by the Center computer looking for that code. 

D2 and RNAV SIDs/STARs presents a similar issue. ATC won't care but the RNAV SID assignment won't happen aromatically.

[PT20J]

According to the GTX 345 installation manual it is DO-260B compliant. ForeFlight suggests in this case adding SUR/ 260B to item 18 because “If you can specify this value, it is advised that you do so as you will be able to obtain preferential routes when there are radar outages or when the route does not have radar coverage.”

https://cloudfront.foreflight.com/docs/ff/1018/ICAO-quick-ref-guide_1018.pdf

 

[kortopates]

26 minutes ago, PT20J said:

For me it's always a challenge to figure stuff out, though I do think the FAA could have made this a lot easier. 

ForeFlight does a pretty good job and it worked flawlessly filing VFR in Canada on a recent flight. According to ForeFlight: 

"ForeFlight supports filing IFR flights to and from the US and within Canada, Caribbean, Bahamas, and Mexico, as well as within and between all EUROCONTROL member states and Greenland using the ICAO flight plan format." and "File intra-Canada and cross-border VFR flight plans between the US and Canada, as well as within and between most EUROCTONTROL member states. VFR flight plans should be opened in the country of departure and closed in the destination country."

One way to learn this is to create a flight plan in ForeFlight and then look at the ICAO form that ForeFlight creates. One thing that trips up a lot of people is that ICAO requires DCT in the route between direct to waypoints. 

That's great to hear Foreflight worked in in Canada.

Contrary to saying they support IFR flights in Mexico, that's not true. One needs a signed paper flight plan for VFR and IFR flights in Mexico. Mexico does have a digital service for filing flight plans but its only available to Mexican certificated pilots. All VFR pilots do need to file an ICAO flight plan to go back to the US  (that can sort of be done on E6B's except for the DVFR designation). But they will still need to file a Mexican flight plan. In a perfect world the Mexican flight plan would be forwarded to the US flight service; but I have found that to be far from reliable and don't count on it.

Canada is a special case for international flight plans though in that there is no US ADIZ at the border, instead the US and Canada jointly operate a northern ADIZ to the north of the Canada, except for the Alaskan ADIZ. But one of the requirements of crossing our ADIZ from the south or Bahamas/Caribbean is to use a DVFR/ICAO DVFR flight plan for VFR and note the time and location of ADIZ penetration time. For IFR just needs ADIZ location and time. Garmin Pilot doesn't give access to the Flight Type field to specify DVFR. Don't know about Foreflight, do they?   

[PT20J]

18 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Garmin Pilot doesn't give access to the Flight Type field to specify DVFR. Don't know about Foreflight, do they?   

FF had selections for VFR, IFR, IFR-VFR, VFR-IFR, DVFR, DC SFRA. I’ve never tried any but IFR and VFR. 

Skip

[PT20J]

21 minutes ago, kortopates said:

Contrary to saying they support IFR flights in Mexico, that's not true. One needs a signed paper flight plan for VFR and IFR flights in Mexico. Mexico does have a digital service for filing flight plans but its only available to Mexican certificated pilots.

I wonder what terrible thing would happen if I created a flight plan between two Mexican airports and tried to file it with ForeFlight as a test. I could cancel it before the ETD if it got acknowledged.

[kortopates]

1 minute ago, PT20J said:

I wonder what terrible thing would happen if I created a flight plan between two Mexican airports and tried to file it with ForeFlight as a test. I could cancel it before the ETD if it got acknowledged.

Mexico controllers never get it, so tower won't let you taxi. Depending on whether your an international or domestic flight you need multiple signature before the flight plan is entered into the system. For international it needs 4 signatures by customs, immigrations, operations (fees) and the AFAC (like our FAA). 

Anyway, can't really test it without actually being there to use it.