M20F Pre-Buy Needed, Greensboro, NC

[Huckster79]

I am in negotiations on an m20f in the Greensboro area, Who may be a good person in that area that could do a sound pre-buy? Possibly a pre-buy that could move to be an annual as that is due in July which isn't that far off... 

[A64Pilot]

Sorry I don’t know anyone in that area, but in my opinion your wise to turn it into an Annual if after looking at the worrisome bits it passes the pre-buy.

Look real, real hard for corrosion, most other things are nickel / dime by comparison

[Huckster79]

26 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Sorry I don’t know anyone in that area, but in my opinion your wise to turn it into an Annual if after looking at the worrisome bits it passes the pre-buy.

Look real, real hard for corrosion, most other things are nickel / dime by comparison

Yea besides corrosion I'm not seeing any real "Gotcha" areas on the Mooney as I'm researching it it out, besides just the overall basics, but I don't see a bunch of "Make sure you check the rear flux capacitor those always crack and cause problems and no one keeps tabs on em" type things as much as other makes and models.  But they do seem to be a bit "Sensitive" to getting corrosion it appears.  

So your advice on a pre-buy would be to ask for extra attention paid to corrosion, is there any certain area that often gets missed?  Or anything like that I should make note of?

[carusoam]

8 minutes ago, Huckster79 said:

Yea besides corrosion I'm not seeing any real "Gotcha" areas on the Mooney as I'm researching it it out, besides just the overall basics, but I don't see a bunch of "Make sure you check the rear flux capacitor those always crack and cause problems and no one keeps tabs on em" type things as much as other makes and models.  But they do seem to be a bit "Sensitive" to getting corrosion it appears.  

So your advice on a pre-buy would be to ask for extra attention paid to corrosion, is there any certain area that often gets missed?  Or anything like that I should make note of?

The only sensitivity to corrosion is….

A new owner that finds corrosion after the purchase… gets a bit sensitive.

All planes are susceptible to corrosion….

But, not all buyers are familiar with PPIs or purchasing ancient machinery…

getting up to speed with machinery that is older than the buyer takes on a new level of learning….

If the buyer is older than the machine… many issues are pre-learned as life lessons… 

PP thoughts only, not a sales guy anymore….

Best regards,

-a-

[Huckster79]

1 hour ago, carusoam said:

The only sensitivity to corrosion is….

A new owner that finds corrosion after the purchase… gets a bit sensitive.

All planes are susceptible to corrosion….

But, not all buyers are familiar with PPIs or purchasing ancient machinery…

getting up to speed with machinery that is older than the buyer takes on a new level of learning….

If the buyer is older than the machine… many issues are pre-learned as life lessons… 

PP thoughts only, not a sales guy anymore….

Best regards,

-a-

Makes sense.  I fly a 1947 Cessna 140 right now, so these Mooney Machines seem like futuristic space travel capable contraptions by comparison to my current equipment... So I'm a bit familiar with old stuff, but the ol 140 is such a simpler machine than these, I feel that I know nothing all over again.... So trying to soak in every bit of knowledge I can... So I've bought two birds before, my 140 and a 150 I had for a short while.  So not my very first rodeo, but no where near enough experience to think I know what I'm doing without a lil help from flying friends... 

Once a sales guy- always a sales guy   Coming from a sales guy  

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Huckster79

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, Huckster79 said:

Yea besides corrosion I'm not seeing any real "Gotcha" areas on the Mooney as I'm researching it it out, besides just the overall basics, but I don't see a bunch of "Make sure you check the rear flux capacitor those always crack and cause problems and no one keeps tabs on em" type things as much as other makes and models.  But they do seem to be a bit "Sensitive" to getting corrosion it appears.  

So your advice on a pre-buy would be to ask for extra attention paid to corrosion, is there any certain area that often gets missed?  Or anything like that I should make note of?

My advice would be to be there, make sure everything is opened up and inspected for corrosion. OK, so your not an IA, but I bet you would know corrosion if you saw it.

Look hard, get a contractor bore scope, you know one with say a 12’ cable and won’t focus closer than an inch or two, worthless for cylinder inspection but just the ticket to look deep inside of wings, maybe $100 or so on Amazon. Seems the one I have is only $30 or so.

I also have a 140, a 46 model. A 140 for example if there is corrosion in the wings, 140 wings are readily available and you can change them in one day, a Mooney it could be the end of the aircraft, sure it could be saved but it’s a whole lot of work.

Some aircraft are better designed / protected or less susceptible to corrosion than others, my opinion is a Mooney wasn’t designed and or well protected from corrosion, which doesn’t make it bad, but does in my opinion make it not as good an airplane to leave tied down as say a Beech, or even a Cessna.

But there is no reason if care is taken that one shouldn’t outlive you, just take care of it.

There is a reason why you will never see a Naval AH-64, it’s actually a great aircraft for the mission, unfortunately no real consideration was ever really given for corrosion prevention, so one wouldn’t likely last a year on a helicopter landing ship.

 

[A64Pilot]

A Mooney and a 140 make a great pair, honestly.

Mooney is tough to beat for traveling, a 140 tough to beat for just flying local on a lazy late Summer afternoon window open, with no destination in mind.

But what will blow your mind is that if I’m leaned out and power pulled back I can get 18, 20 if I push it NMPG on the Mooney

My 140 only 16 NMPG, and a Legend Cub only gets 13 NMPG.

So a Mooney can actually burn less fuel over the same distance than a C-140 and easily better than a Legend Cub.

 

[Huckster79]

20 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

My advice would be to be there, make sure everything is opened up and inspected for corrosion. OK, so your not an IA, but I bet you would know corrosion if you saw it.

Look hard, get a contractor bore scope, you know one with say a 12’ cable and won’t focus closer than an inch or two, worthless for cylinder inspection but just the ticket to look deep inside of wings, maybe $100 or so on Amazon. Seems the one I have is only $30 or so.

I also have a 140, a 46 model. A 140 for example if there is corrosion in the wings, 140 wings are readily available and you can change them in one day, a Mooney it could be the end of the aircraft, sure it could be saved but it’s a whole lot of work.

Some aircraft are better designed / protected or less susceptible to corrosion than others, my opinion is a Mooney wasn’t designed and or well protected from corrosion, which doesn’t make it bad, but does in my opinion make it not as good an airplane to leave tied down as say a Beech, or even a Cessna.

But there is no reason if care is taken that one shouldn’t outlive you, just take care of it.

There is a reason why you will never see a Naval AH-64, it’s actually a great aircraft for the mission, unfortunately no real consideration was ever really given for corrosion prevention, so one wouldn’t likely last a year on a helicopter landing ship.

 

Yea if I can be there I would like to be.  I do have a pretty decent borescope.  I check my valves every other oil change... Yea that was my thought too, Im not an IA but there are plenty of things I can see without that title.... 

[Pinecone]

In Mooney speeds, I would take it to KGAI and have Byron do the inspection.

But before that, have him take a look at the logs.  He saved me the cost of a couple of pre-buys with a log inspection

 

[75_M20F]

There is a good MX shop at W78 which is close to GSO. They could probably help you out.

[M20F]

Ensure the cigar lighter works, not many know how to fix one these days.  If the A&P has a smoking jacket and a martini they know a thing or two about working on an Executive. 

[Huckster79]

I ended up bringing my mechanic with me from my airport.  We went through it together.    It went very well, just have to finish paperwork n fundage this week and go pick it up n bring it home  

[midlifeflyer]

55 minutes ago, Huckster79 said:

I ended up bringing my mechanic with me from my airport.  We went through it together.    It went very well, just have to finish paperwork n fundage this week and go pick it up n bring it home  

The mechanic who will be taking care of your post-purchase maintenance needs is often the best person for a prebuy.

[Huckster79]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:54 AM, midlifeflyer said:

The mechanic who will be taking care of your post-purchase maintenance needs is often the best person for a prebuy.

Right… now I can hold his feet to the fire if he finds surprises at first annual .  He’s a good friend- so I kept reminding him that  

We had a blast!  12 he drive and we BSed the whole way both ways.  The bird checked out very well.  I’ll be finishing the transaction this week and then go get her… very happy.  Had a great time with the seller as well- absolute gentleman.  
 

So besides for the fat lady singing - I’m in the fraternity of Mooney ownership