Looking for a M20F

[john221us]

Quote: KSMooniac

If you are diligent and reasonable with your searching, you shouldn't be flying all over the country and paying for multiple pre-buys.  There is no excuse today with broadband internet and cheap cameras for a good seller NOT to have scanned copies of the logs (at least recent history) and lots of detailed pics that can be sent to you.

[mschmuff]

I am finding that a lot!!  Aircraft has 550hrs SMOH (in 1993 which you don't find out until you look at the log books)!! And it hasn't been annual'd in the last 4 years!! Its amazing how good a plane can look in an ad and then you start digging into the log books and you are staring at something that is going to cost you a ton in maintenance in the first two years!!  That has become my first question on the phone!!  A M20F just came on the market on Barnstormers for $46,500 OBO in Calif.  It looks great but CA is just too far!  

[Seth]

The F is a great plane - one of the best values you can get for performance - as mentioend, everything a J does for $20,000 to $30,000 less 10 knots slower.  I love the idea, as mentioned in another post, of an F modded to J status with a hand operated johnson bar landing gear system.

I had an F I purchased in your price range in 2008 - it was a 1967.  It had a new interior, new prop, and about 50 hours on a new fatory remanufactured engine.  It needed paint, an engine monitor, and had no autopilot - it it did have the wing leveler.  It had not flow much, but enough that it was still in decent shape.  I did replace a greater proportion of items the first year, but it was a good solid airframe, and that's what counts.  It had a gear up in the recent history but the MSC that repaired it vouched for it, and they were right, as it was a quick F.  It had some speed mods, but the windshield and cowling were stock F.  I loved that plane.  I sold it earlier this year for three thousand less than I bought it for, after about 500 hours of flying.  I also had put a lot of upgrades into it along the way.  It never had a GPS in panel.  But, I attained my IFR rating in it and the systems it had were fine.  Go to a local MSC and find out if there is anyone looking to sell - these are the planes that are not listed, that someone is ready to move, but just don't want to do the leg work to get started.

It may not hurt to call a broker or two (I have some I suggest if you want to PM me) that may also know of some F models that are not on the market but would be for the right buyer.

It is much less expensive to purchase a plane with a GPS and with an autopilot - I would highly encourage an autopilot.  It decreases workload like none other and makes you the pilot a much better manager.

Take care,

-Seth

[Seth]

http://strategicaircraft.com/1976-mooney-m20f-n112ph/#!prettyPhoto[pp_gal]/0/

This is one of the brokers.  He's had this plane for sale for six months now, so no one is biting.  I haven't looked at the logs (but they are scanned online for you to read) and this asking price is $59,900.00.  It actually is worth right about that in my opinion, especially with the avionics. 

Tim will be honest with you and he'll tell you whatever shortcomings there are.  As long as you are okay with the paint and interior (the paint is in good shape, it is just a unique green) - this may be your new Mooney.

-Seth

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: Seth

http://strategicaircraft.com/1976-mooney-m20f-n112ph/#!prettyPhoto[pp_gal]/0/

This is one of the brokers.  He's had this plane for sale for six months now, so no one is biting.  I haven't looked at the logs (but they are scanned online for you to read) and this asking price is $59,900.00.  It actually is worth right about that in my opinion, especially with the avionics. 

Tim will be honest with you and he'll tell you whatever shortcomings there are.  As long as you are okay with the paint and interior (the paint is in good shape, it is just a unique green) - this may be your new Mooney.

-Seth

[jwilkins]

Quote: schule

 

I just bought an F formerly owned by Mr. Wilkins.  I was having a hard time deciding between the aircraft I bought and the aircraft I want in the future.  The biggest factor I settled on was a holistic look at the anticipated cost of ownership.  The actual purchase price getting me within 90% of what i need was important, but not close to the whole picture.  Paying more for the aircraft is a right decision if you do it for the right reasons.  Your mechanic will appreciate any fixer-upper you might get.

After 6 months of looking I ended up with a very well maintained aircraft that was fresh off an annual at Maxwell's.  I bought the plane sight unseen based off my research on the logs and the reputations of Don Maxwell and Jimmy Garrison.  After almost 40 flight hours last week I am a very happy, new to me, Mooney owner.

If you don't want to fly to Cali to look at planes I would most definitely recommend a trip to TX.  Also remember, the economy doesn't suck in TX, ND, and AK as we have a boat full of black gold.

Good luck with your search it can definitely be rewarding on the other-side!  Thanks Mr. Wilkins for the torch you carried for a while on 477T.

 

-Mark

 

[Seth]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

 It probably won't give too many hassles.  Looks like consistent MSC maintenance.  Tim L is a good guy to deal with.

[jetdriven]

AAA sent us the scanned logs before we even came to look at the plane.   

Quote: john221us

I have not found that anyone is scanning the logs on these old airframes (especially brokers, who want to do the minimum amount necessary to sell a plane).  I just went and looked at one and found that the total hours in the listing were equal to the current tach time (even though the tach had been swapped at 1750 hours).  He also forgot to mention on the phone, that the plane had been sitting for two years.  Buyer beware.

[schule]

I looked at All American Aircraft (Jimmy Garrison), Strategic Aircraft (Tim Lundquist), and Delta Aviation LLC (Mark Woods).  All of them have scaned copies of all the logs books and photo albums of the aircraft.  They all seemed willing to get information too me as requested.  I as able to build a well documented history on each aircraft I was seriously interested in.

Jimmy Garrison ended up having the aeroplane which ended a long search.  It was a great experience and the reputation of All American Aircraft stood the test.  Both of the other dealers seemed to be honest, but I unfortunately don't have the $$$$$$ to also buy the other two aircraft they had on my list.

I, as others here have also mentioned, recommend Jimmy based upon personal experience.  I would recommend him as a benchmark and if the dealer you are dealing with is not up to that standard then.......  I hope you get a smokin' good deal.

-Mark

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Seth

.......Go to a local MSC and find out if there is anyone looking to sell - these are the planes that are not listed, that someone is ready to move, but just don't want to do the leg work to get started.

 

[Gone]

Quote

: Seth

[Seth]

Quote: edgargravel

This really is the best way to find a decent one. Create a "wanted" flyer attached to an e-mail blast and keep sending it out every month or so. Sometimes sellers don't want to sell unless there is an easy sale.

[mschmuff]

I have two F's I am looking at but just found an "E" in Maryland.  Its on the controller.  Looks like the guy put a ton of work into it.  Electric gear on a '65 and a WAAS 430.  It had corrosion at the spar which I thought was basically a reason to total the aircraft.  Any ideas on that?  This is one I could just drive over and take a look at for little to no expense.  Is the "E" that much smaller than the "F"??  I am coming off a Cherokee 180 and I have a student that I am instructing in a Grumman AA5....am I really gonna notice a difference?

[KSMooniac]

The E is a great option for solo or with 1 passenger, but the back seat is really not suitable for adults for any length of time.  (I grew up in the back of a C with my younger brother, but we stopped family traveling in it by the time I was 12 or 13.)  The F will offer more flexibility and longer range (bigger fuel tanks) for just slightly less cruise speed.  I initially started looking for a modded E or F but ended up with my J and am glad I didn't get the shorter E.  I've flown 4-up or 2 with LOTS of gear on multiple occasions that would not have been possible in an E.  YMMV

Spar corrosion is a huge concern!  Find out the details, and what was done to correct it before you get serious about it.  If it is local, then no harm taking a look of course.

[KSMooniac]

Nice turbo-normalized F in San Antonio:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F/1968-MOONEY-M20F/1229673.htm?

That is *exactly* what I had hoped to find 5 years ago with a bonus turbo kit.  That is a lot of airplane for the money IMO.

[carusoam]

Quote: KSMooniac

Nice turbo-normalized F in San Antonio:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F/1968-MOONEY-M20F/1229673.htm?

That is *exactly* what I had hoped to find 5 years ago with a bonus turbo kit.  That is a lot of airplane for the money IMO.

[Shadrach]

Sorry carusoam, that was me...

[mschmuff]

Yeah I saw that turbo in TX - way out of my price range....As for the "E" the corrsion scares me..a lot!  It will usually be only me flying it but I will take the wife and daughter places.  I don't want to limit myself...and my daughter will eventually grow!

I also notice there are a ton of "E"s for sale so resale may be more of an issue with an "E" than an "F".  I'll probably still go down and look at it...The guy definitely put some money into it.

[Becca]

Quote: dmc

9-27 is 2000', 18-36 is 3800'.  I guess I could always wait for the wind to blow North or South.  As far as obstacles the short runway is not to bad,  nothing on one end, but parked planes and a power lines a few hundred ft to clear on the other.

As far as buying, I originally was hoping to be able to spend less than 50k also.  I'm not sure if that's doable, but we will just have to see.  I have just started watching and there are quite a few for under 60k, and they still seam to be listed for quite some time.  Ive got some wiggle room, but I'm not sure just how much I want to spend.  

 

[Becca]

Quote: john221us

I have not found that anyone is scanning the logs on these old airframes (especially brokers, who want to do the minimum amount necessary to sell a plane).  I just went and looked at one and found that the total hours in the listing were equal to the current tach time (even though the tach had been swapped at 1750 hours).  He also forgot to mention on the phone, that the plane had been sitting for two years.  Buyer beware.

[Seth]

Quote: mschmuff

I have two F's I am looking at but just found an "E" in Maryland.  Its on the controller.  Looks like the guy put a ton of work into it.  Electric gear on a '65 and a WAAS 430.  It had corrosion at the spar which I thought was basically a reason to total the aircraft.  Any ideas on that?  This is one I could just drive over and take a look at for little to no expense.  Is the "E" that much smaller than the "F"??  I am coming off a Cherokee 180 and I have a student that I am instructing in a Grumman AA5....am I really gonna notice a difference?

[gregwatts]

Quote: mschmuff

Yeah I saw that turbo in TX - way out of my price range....As for the "E" the corrsion scares me..a lot! It will usually be only me flying it but I will take the wife and daughter places. I don't want to limit myself...and my daughter will eventually grow!

I also notice there are a ton of "E"s for sale so resale may be more of an issue with an "E" than an "F". I'll probably still go down and look at it...The guy definitely put some money into it.

[orangemtl]

Nothing like a bad divorce to prompt the occasional great sale price...

[mschmuff]

Ok folks, I need some advice.  I am looking at a '69 F in NY - it's on trade-a-plane.  He is asking $43,900.  Engine is solid and just had a new crankcase because the old one developed a crack. So new bearings as well....so some fresh internal parts....assume TBO+ should be no problem to achieve.  Good mods but needs an IFR GPS.....comes with a 396.  Brittain auto pilot probably needs servicing.

Here's the catch - undocumented damage history from 1976.  432AE - you can google it.  Runway incursion.  There is a log book entry clearing it to fly to another airport "only" less than 30days after incident.  But no record of a repair.  Is this a deal breaker?  It's had 36 annuals and a new engine since.  If it's not a deal breaker what is a fair price?

Thanks

[gregwatts]

Quote: mschmuff

Ok folks, I need some advice. I am looking at a '69 F in NY - it's on trade-a-plane. He is asking $43,900. Engine is solid and just had a new crankcase because the old one developed a crack. So new bearings as well....so some fresh internal parts....assume TBO+ should be no problem to achieve. Good mods but needs an IFR GPS.....comes with a 396. Brittain auto pilot probably needs servicing.

Here's the catch - undocumented damage history from 1976. 432AE - you can google it. Runway incursion. There is a log book entry clearing it to fly to another airport "only" less than 30days after incident. But no record of a repair. Is this a deal breaker? It's had 36 annuals and a new engine since. If it's not a deal breaker what is a fair price?

Thanks