Interior Predicament

[Matt M]

So I have been tossing the idea of redoing the interior of my J for a while. I decided that now is as better than any. I already planned out what I need. Plan on repairing the plastics, painting them, etc. I also have a couple that are beyond repair that I am going to get from plane plastics.  I was entertaining Airtex seats, carpets, and side panels for the rest as they seem to be a good value and are about an hour and a half drive so I can save the shipping costs. I called today and it's a 18-20 week lead time. That puts me in June right when I want to be flying and have other home projects planned. I am toying the idea of an auto upholstery shop. I figure I can give them the seats, side panels, and carpets. They can use the side panels and carpets as patterns for the new and then make the new seat backs and cushions for the seats and install on them. My only hesitation is that they have done a few aircraft over the years not many. They mainly do cars and boats. They said they could, but may cost more than a company that already has the patterns. Are there any other companies that do seats? I know about Aerocomfort, but they are above my price point. Airtex is about $1600 for all four. I have the split seats in the back so they are very basic. 

 

Matt

[Red Leader]

Earlier this year, I was making the same decision as you. The interior and carpets on my K were just redone when I purchased it a year ago but the seats were done in the old style and in black leather - yuck! This last summer I pulled all the panels and seats and had everything recovered and re-upholstered. There is a local shop that specializes in boats and cars but will also do planes. They helped me plan out all the designs I wanted, ordered the materials, did the work and provided the required FAA paperwork - all for around 5k. Of course, I did all the removal and reinstallation (it's a pain, it really is) and had an A&P double-check the installation / paperwork but it was worth it! I had originally had between 15-20k budgeted for the interior re-do but this came out great and didn't cost me too much. My downtime was about two months but, again, worth it! Look for a similar shop that knows the ins and outs of the FAA requirements when it comes to working with aircraft.

[PilotX]

That is pretty sharp. I did most of the interior work myself and I got what I paid for. Painted the panels, re-did the naugahyde, "welded" the cracks, filled the holes. I am pretty happy, a lot of time but less expense than AeroComfort. I did this during my first massive avionics upgrade. AeroComfort did the glare shield and yokes for me. @Marc_B just had his interior redone at AC and it looks great. Since I just did more avionics work the interior will have to wait again.

[jlunseth]

Why not try Wisconsin Aviation? I don’t know the firm itself, but they bought the system that Bruce Jaeger designed. Bruce is a very meticulous fella. He was my commercial instructor and owned Willmar Aviation for a long time. I believe they supply parts and kits, Bruce did. The system was much more moderately priced when Bruce was doing it, I don’t know much about their current prices except what is on line.

[Mark89114]

Where do you find the foam for the seats?  My friend who does this isn't charging me any labor, so I got that going for me, but I do need new foam and my half ass google research hasn't led me anywhere yet.  

[Matt M]

1 hour ago, jlunseth said:

Why not try Wisconsin Aviation? I don’t know the firm itself, but they bought the system that Bruce Jaeger designed. Bruce is a very meticulous fella. He was my commercial instructor and owned Willmar Aviation for a long time. I believe they supply parts and kits, Bruce did. The system was much more moderately priced when Bruce was doing it, I don’t know much about their current prices except what is on line.

I looked and it appears Wisconsin Aviation uses SCS for carpets and seats. SCS is closed this week for the holidays. I will give them a call next week and see. It looks like their carpet kit includes the side panels as well. If so it is comparably priced to Airtex when you add the carpet and sidewalls together.

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

Where do you find the foam for the seats?  My friend who does this isn't charging me any labor, so I got that going for me, but I do need new foam and my half ass google research hasn't led me anywhere yet.  

Aircraft Spruce looks like it has a decent variety of foam   https://www.aircraftspruce.com/categories/building_materials/bm/menus/cm/foam.html

[jetdriven]

The best foam I’ve used is DAX firehard foam.  The medium is pretty close to ideal.  And it doesn’t break down and sag after a couple of years like the cheap upholstery shop foam will 

[Skates97]

I replaced the seat bottoms in mine quite awhile back with the confor foam. I didn't touch the seat backs but it has made a world of difference. If it is cold it is like sitting on a board for the first few minutes until they warm up a little. Here is a thread that @Pasturepilot did when he replaced his seat cushions which may be helpful.

 

[Yetti]

Side panels are easy to do.   I used some sheet aluminum contact cement and leather.   Took about a day per side.  https://www.leatherhidestore.com/    Leather is really burn semi proof.   I did the three Burn Tests on the same sample of leather and there was no burn through.   The Mooney is CAR-3 Certified.   This AC is the higher level Burn testing.  As we know AC are not regulatory.   https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjmjf2mh538AhUZl2oFHfcWAycQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faa.gov%2FdocumentLibrary%2Fmedia%2FAdvisory_Circular%2FAC_20-178.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2LGDslA6-carZlsD7eWVIH      Pretty sure that alum side panel with leather that I built are way more flame resistant than the cardboard carpet ones that came from the factory.   Interesting but the guy in San Antonio did not have patterns for the F or at least my model F.   So I was forced to roll my own.

 

 

[Greg Ellis]

30 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Side panels are easy to do.   I used some sheet aluminum contact cement and leather.   Took about a day per side.  https://www.leatherhidestore.com/    Leather is really burn semi proof.   I did the three Burn Tests on the same sample of leather and there was no burn through.   The Mooney is CAR-3 Certified.   This AC is the higher level Burn testing.  As we know AC are not regulatory.   https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjmjf2mh538AhUZl2oFHfcWAycQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.faa.gov%2FdocumentLibrary%2Fmedia%2FAdvisory_Circular%2FAC_20-178.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2LGDslA6-carZlsD7eWVIH      Pretty sure that alum side panel with leather that I built are way more flame resistant than the cardboard carpet ones that came from the factory.   Interesting but the guy in San Antonio did not have patterns for the F or at least my model F.   So I was forced to roll my own.

 

 

What is the weight difference between using aluminum and the factory cardboard?  Negligible?

[DCarlton]

I used thin AL sheet for the armrests and interior side panel trim too.  Riveted nut plates and screws to hold the trim panels and armrests to the plastic side panels instead of adhesives.  Worked fine.  By the time you add padding or foam and upholstery, any weight differences are in the noise.  I have not used aluminum for the carpeted side panels and probably wouldn't.  I'm no expert though.  

[A64Pilot]

Burn test wise it’s not an AC we have to comply with but Certification standards, as CAR 3 aircraft it’s something like must not readily support combustion or similar.

FAR 23 is to a much higher standard and we don’t have to meet FAR 23, but probably should. That’s up to you.

‘What we need is CAR 3.388 but I can’t link to it, my google fu is broken , in it you’ll find that if you placard the aircraft nonsmoking you don’t really have to meet any burn test, but if smoking is allowed you must have available some number of ash tray and meet min burn standards.

‘This is from memory so look it up, so long as you don’t allow smoking your good and way I read it is you can get rid of those ash trays, but I believe you need a no smoking placard to be fully legal, but this is from memory, if someone finds CAR 3.388 that’s it.

[A64Pilot]

4 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I used thin AL sheet for the armrests and interior side panel trim too.  Riveted nut plates and screws to hold the trim panels and armrests to the plastic side panels instead of adhesives.  Worked fine.  By the time you add padding or foam and upholstery, any weight differences are in the noise.  I have not used aluminum for the carpeted side panels and probably wouldn't.  I'm no expert though.  

Maules interior is this way thin sheet aluminum, actually flashing from Home Depot and 3M spray glue to adhere the vinyl, headliner like an old VW, great thing about that is the whole interior can be replaced by yourself or any upholstery person, no flimsy brittle plastic

The floor boards are actually that, Luan plywood with carpet glued to it, they can be removed in a couple of minutes

[A64Pilot]

Found it

§ 3.388 Fire precautions—(a) Cabin interiors. Only materials which are flash- resistant shall be used. In compartments where smoking is to be permitted, the materials of the cabin lining, floors, upholstery, and furnishings shall be flame-resistant. Such compartments shall be equipped with an adequate number of self- contained ash trays. All other compartments shall be placarded against smoking.

[DCarlton]

4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Found it

§ 3.388 Fire precautions—(a) Cabin interiors. Only materials which are flash- resistant shall be used. In compartments where smoking is to be permitted, the materials of the cabin lining, floors, upholstery, and furnishings shall be flame-resistant. Such compartments shall be equipped with an adequate number of self- contained ash trays. All other compartments shall be placarded against smoking.

I would get out as fast as I could and run like hell if someone lit a cigarette in my airplane...  even with freshly resealed tanks...  

[A64Pilot]

20 minutes ago, DCarlton said:

I would get out as fast as I could and run like hell if someone lit a cigarette in my airplane...  even with freshly resealed tanks...  

I agree, but the CAR goes back I think to 36 maybe?, when EVERBODY smoked. But it still is the law. I’m real sure no one would call you on it, but without a no smoking placard you have to keep the ashtrays if you do a new interior. Only fabric in the crop duster I built was the foam in the seat and the mesh covers, but as we had no ash tray, we had to placard the airplane no smoking.

Bought a Tesla last year and I’m pretty sure it has no ash tray or provisions for one, I’d say not many smoke anymore

[Yetti]

7 hours ago, Greg Ellis said:

What is the weight difference between using aluminum and the factory cardboard?  Negligible?

I think the thin alum with leather was less, but not enough to worry about.   There are two or three thickness of leather.   If you want lighter leather get car uposltry grade.

[MikeOH]

19 hours ago, DCarlton said:

I would get out as fast as I could and run like hell if someone lit a cigarette in my airplane...  even with freshly resealed tanks...  

Anyone that lights a cigarette in my airplane is going to learn that SMOKING is FATAL!

[neilpilot]

6 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Anyone that lights a cigarette in my airplane is going to learn that SMOKING is FATAL!

Placard in my former M20E:  "NO SMOKING SECTION - FIRST 2 ROWS"