Leaving the Certified world for Experimental!!

[kerry]

1 hour ago, chriscalandro said:

It took a few hours to get used to. It doesn’t float at all, so coming from 600 plus hours in my C almost exclusively took some habit breaking. 
 

it’s fast, more efficient than the Mooney, and is aerobatic. 
 

I have the long tips with fuel so it’s also an excellent cross country machine. 

I recently purchased a Lancair 235/320. I'm in the process of getting it airworthy.  It's seems similar to the Glasair.  I'm in about the same boat as you with time in the Mooney.  All the reading I've done on the Lancair makes me a bit nervous in the transition.   When I get ready to fly it I hope I adapt as well as you have.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, 67 m20F chump said:

I have been looking at the new high wing Van’s.  The problem I keep coming back to is the cost.  For what you pay for the kit, engine, prop, avionics and paint you could buy a nice Bonanza/Mooney.  Then think about how much of your time you will sink into the kit.  I have tried to talk myself into building a few times but never can drop the hammer on it.  I’m not going to do aerobatic flying so other than doing my own maintenance what do I get thats better than what I have?

For me the attraction to the high-wing would be better access to a lot of the interesting dirt strips around the southwest.    A Bonanza would be better for that than a Mooney, but still wouldn't be good for some of the smaller strips.    Cessna 170s and 180s are crazy expensive and are old.   A Maule might be a nice option, but there are tradeoffs there as well.

The "why build" thing is just like the "why own an airplane" thing.   There is often no economic justification, it's something you do because you want to.    In the AB experimental world, if you build it you also have the repairman certificate for it so you can do your own condition inspections.

[Pinecone]

When I was more looking at building something, the normal advice was build if you liked building.  Building because you like flying did not work as well.

But this was before the comprehensive kits of today.

[GeeBee]

I use my airplane for transportation. Yesterday I flew from KMTN to KGVL. 3:38, 2 hours in solid IFR with the TKS blasting away against the ice. Not many experimental out there that can do that mission for under 400K.....on 48 gallons of fuel. 

[zxr92]

Arion Lightning XS would be up there too with the Titan 340. 

http://www.flylightning.net/xs.html

[kerry]

5 hours ago, gmonnig said:

I love the Falco! It's a beautiful design and it's made of wood! Im very used to working with that material. A fellow Mooneyspacer and I both built a 23ft mahogany speedboat. Only problem is it took us 10yrs to do. 

With those skills you should be flying a wood wing Mooney.

[A64Pilot]

I was looking for an 200 HP RV-8 or even a 200 HP RV-7, before I bought the Mooney, but prices were what I paid for my J.

The RV-8 I don’t think is going to be a good instrument bird, panel is too small.

I have a friend with a Lancair IV Turboprop, he says you’re not insuring it, and that means of course you can’t finance it either, have to buy with cash and forego insurence

He says it’s no problem to fly, just fly it like it was a Lear 35 and you’ll have no problem.

For the the first time I’m looking to buy life insurence, before I’m sure I wasn’t insurable, but even being a pilot makes insurence tough, I bet flying Experimental wouldn’t help, so there may be unintended consequences with going Experimental.

Life Insurence did ask make of aircraft, but only had a spot for one aircraft.

[gmonnig]

2 hours ago, kerry said:

I recently purchased a Lancair 235/320. I'm in the process of getting it airworthy.  It's seems similar to the Glasair.  I'm in about the same boat as you with time in the Mooney.  All the reading I've done on the Lancair makes me a bit nervous in the transition.   When I get ready to fly it I hope I adapt as well as you have.

I saw your posts on this Lancair. Have fun transitioning! I love the efficiency of the 320. I heard  from the Lancair community that the 320-360 isn't as bad behaved as the 4P. Tom McNerney (Unleashed was his Modded 360 name) is a Lancair expert and Reno air racer that is at my airport. His new project for Reno next year is going to be insane. Since my home is on final to the airport, I get to watch his flights from my patio. This has fueled the Experimental aircraft flame.

[gmonnig]

1 hour ago, zxr92 said:

Arion Lightning XS would be up there too with the Titan 340. 

http://www.flylightning.net/xs.html

Watched every video on these this morning! I do like it! The Titan 340 would be amazing, it just sits really high. I'd like this airframe with a Rotax 915! 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, gmonnig said:

Watched every video on these this morning! I do like it! The Titan 340 would be amazing, it just sits really high. I'd like this airframe with a Rotax 915! 

I look after one of these that was built by the factory, with a UL Power engine.  I’d buy/ build an RV before one of these.  It was/ is a disaster.

[oregon87]

If going the experimental route, the RV-15 has my attention.  Living in Oregon, hitting backcountry fishing/camping spots is very attractive.  It obviously will not be as fast as a Mooney, but hopefully better than other similarly designed airplanes.  

[Steve0715]

3 hours ago, gmonnig said:

Watched every video on these this morning! I do like it! The Titan 340 would be amazing, it just sits really high. I'd like this airframe with a Rotax 915! 

I put a deposit down for the LSA version.  I was all excited, especially when my insurance quote came in.  10k and that didn’t include insurance in flight!  

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

I look after one of these that was built by the factory, with a UL Power engine.  I’d buy/ build an RV before one of these.  It was/ is a disaster.

How's the UL motor doing?    I follow those guys an FB and they seem to have a decent business.

[gmonnig]

1 hour ago, Steve0715 said:

I put a deposit down for the LSA version.  I was all excited, especially when my insurance quote came in.  10k and that didn’t include insurance in flight!  

$10k yr for non-movement insurance?? Ouch, wonder why? Is it because of the Jabiru engine engine. 

[A64Pilot]

13 minutes ago, gmonnig said:

$10k yr for non-movement insurance?? Ouch, wonder why? Is it because of the Jabiru engine engine. 

The accident stats for a lot of Experimental's aren’t very good, some engine, some the aircraft, some the pilots

[Steve0715]

1 hour ago, gmonnig said:

$10k yr for non-movement insurance?? Ouch, wonder why? Is it because of the Jabiru engine engine. 

I suspect it’s the landing characteristics.  I had the opportunity to talk to an owner of an XS model with the Titan 340.  I was considering building my own runway but would be limited to about 2000’.  He told me he wouldn’t even think about landing with 2000’.  The Lightning wants to float big time.  At least that’s what he told me.  I don’t really think it’s the jabiru.  What finalized my decision was a video of a landing at Oshkosh.  Ugly.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

How's the UL motor doing?    I follow those guys an FB and they seem to have a decent business.

The engine itself is OK.  The airframe kit has a long way to go to catch up to Van’s.  The airframe is slow, and has C of G issues with this engine.

[Red Leader]

7 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I have a friend with a Lancair IV Turboprop, he says you’re not insuring it, and that means of course you can’t finance it either, have to buy with cash and forego insurence

Can't speak to other airports but at mine, insurance isn't an option. If you do not have any, you cannot keep your bird here.

[toto]

2 hours ago, Red Leader said:

Can't speak to other airports but at mine, insurance isn't an option. If you do not have any, you cannot keep your bird here.

At least at my airport, the county requires tenants to have insurance that names the county as an additional insured. I’m aware of uninsured aircraft owners who put the aircraft in a group hangar where the FBO is the tenant. The FBO carries insurance that satisfies the county, and the FBO doesn’t require aircraft to have their own insurance.

Seems like the FBO is taking on a lot of risk, but as far as I know it’s all above board. 

[DCarlton]

10 hours ago, gmonnig said:

Watched every video on these this morning! I do like it! The Titan 340 would be amazing, it just sits really high. I'd like this airframe with a Rotax 915! 

Seems like it’s a little shy of any useful load margin with full fuel.  

[Fly Boomer]

13 hours ago, Red Leader said:

Can't speak to other airports but at mine, insurance isn't an option. If you do not have any, you cannot keep your bird here.

I'm not sure about the details, but I know people who bought what they describe as "hangar insurance" when those restrictions were imposed.  They previously carried no insurance on their airplane.

[A64Pilot]

3 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I'm not sure about the details, but I know people who bought what they describe as "hangar insurance" when those restrictions were imposed.  They previously carried no insurance on their airplane.

A&P’s are required to have hangar keepers insurence to cover customers aircraft.

https://avioninsurance.com/what-is-hangar-keepers-insurance/

I’m sure just about any insurence we can think of exists.

On the boat I had to have 1 Mil liability on the boat and the Marina as a named something of other so it’s not just aircraft.

[gmonnig]

On 12/22/2022 at 10:38 AM, nosky2high said:

I’m leaving the certified world as well and moving to experimental. Liability insurance only is my plan. If anything happens, I’ll fix it. If the worst happens, hull coverage won’t matter. I’ve got access to a local complex four seater (Arrow) when needed and will carry renters insurance for that. I’ve got a Waiex kit started and am expanding into gyrocopters soon to add another rating to my bucket list. I’ve taken vintage GA personal IFR flying as far as I ever thought possible. Five airplanes owned, three Cherokees then two Mooneys(2300+), 3400+ total hours, 3100+ x-c, 900+ night, 600+ actual, never had an autopilot but sure appreciate that wing leveler. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the adventure, skill, and risk decision making challenges of single engine IFR cross country flying. But I’m not getting any younger. Fuel, maintenance, and insurance isn’t getting any cheaper. Does anyone out there want a very mechanically sound 67’ M20F?

This is what I was thinking with insurance too. I wish the Sonex Highwing was ready to go. I would bought the kit last oshkosh.