Calling Rocket Owners!!!

[Yooper Rocketman]

Since I moved back to Rocket ownership from an amazingly capable turbo prop, which will be “years” from flying again, moving from tremendously capable glass back to “steam gauges” has been extremely painful. I was quoting a full Garmin Glass panel and found out the BIG HURDLE is that Garmin has NO FAA APPROVAL to install a Garmin A/P in a Mooney Rocket “because it has too much power”.    Seriously, it handled a 724 HP Turboprop just fine!   
 

So, has ANY ROCKET OWNER gotten a Field Approval for a Garmin A/P on a Rocket STC?’ed Mooney K Model???  My local FBO will consider applying for a Field Approval for a Garmin A/P with my new quoted flat screen GLASS Avionics Upgrade if someone prior to them has received a field approval, but is working with a “marginally cooperative FSDO approving FIRST TIME Field Approvals.    
 

Please advise if anyone has gotten a FIELD APPROVAL for the Garmin AUTO PILOT IN A ROCKET!!

Thanks

Tom

[alextstone]

Tom, 

What happened to the turboprop?

[Yooper Rocketman]

  On 9/30/2022 at 10:13 PM, alextstone said:

Tom, 

What happened to the turboprop?

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Alex,

Engine failure at 500’ on takeoff, Xmas morning, with NO REALISTIC landing options.  
 

Committed Annual Training provided  us a “walk away” option under the worst conditions and landing options.   Life goes on!

Fortunately I was able to buy my Rocket back for a flying option from the U.P. Of Michigan to our home on Spruce Creek (10 miles south of Daytona Beach FL) for the next several winters during the rebuild.

 

Tom

[alextstone]

Wow!  Congrats on the outcome... +1 for training!

Alex

[Hank]

Hey, Erik! What do you have? @aviatoreb

[ArtVandelay]

You may have to skip the G3X/GFC500 and go to G500TXi/GFC600 as they are approved for higher powered airplanes.

[1980Mooney]

  On 9/30/2022 at 10:51 PM, Yooper Rocketman said:

Alex,

Engine failure at 500’ on takeoff, Xmas morning, with NO REALISTIC landing options.  
 

Committed Annual Training provided  us a “walk away” option under the worst conditions and landing options.   Life goes on!

Fortunately I was able to buy my Rocket back for a flying option from the U.P. Of Michigan to our home on Spruce Creek (10 miles south of Daytona Beach FL) for the next several winters during the rebuild.

 

Tom

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I thought the appeal of a turboprop was 'it's insane reliability".  Interesting.

[Yooper Rocketman]

  On 9/30/2022 at 11:50 PM, 1980Mooney said:

I thought the appeal of a turboprop was 'it's insane reliability".  Interesting.

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Yep, my thoughts too.   Bottom line, no matter what you fly, don’t get complacent.   The worst scenario can happen to ANY OF US!!

Tom

[aviatoreb]

  On 9/30/2022 at 11:25 PM, Hank said:

Hey, Erik! What do you have? @aviatoreb

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I have the king kfc200 still which is incredibly capable but old school but much more capable when driven by a pair of gi275 and gtn650.

I figure I keep going with this for a while.  But I might get the gfc500 eventually - whaaaaa?!  The rocket is excluded from the stc?  That’s just silly / isn’t the bonanza on the stc?  Bigger airplane same/more hp.

[aviatoreb]

  On 10/1/2022 at 12:07 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

Yep, my thoughts too.   Bottom line, no matter what you fly, don’t get complacent.   The worst scenario can happen to ANY OF US!!

Tom

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Was it an actual engine failure or a fuel delivery failure or fuel contamination or somehow none of the above?

[LANCECASPER]

  On 9/30/2022 at 11:28 PM, ArtVandelay said:

You may have to skip the G3X/GFC500 and go to G500TXi/GFC600 as they are approved for higher powered airplanes.

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According to Max Unruh at Garmin they have no plans for the GFC600 for Mooneys, which is too bad.

[Yooper Rocketman]

  On 9/30/2022 at 11:50 PM, 1980Mooney said:

I thought the appeal of a turboprop was 'it's insane reliability".  Interesting.

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And to add to that, the same challenge handed to me in my MOONEY would have likely been fatal (comments by several experts that knew my complete final flight parameters).   I explain later to those wondering why later!

 

Tom

[Yooper Rocketman]

  On 10/1/2022 at 12:10 AM, aviatoreb said:

Was it an actual engine failure or a fuel delivery failure or fuel contamination or somehow none of the above?

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Yes, an FCU failure, none the less, ultimately, an engine failure at 500’ with no option for a turn back with the most ugly options with, literally, seconds to make the right decision to actually survive the situation.

Tom

[Yooper Rocketman]

And, hoping to get back “on topic”, looking for ANYONE that’s been able to get a field approval on a Garmin Auto Pilot for a Rocket??

[GeeBee]

I keep looking for the paper that says the Rocket is not approved. A Rocket is an M20K with an engine STC. All I see is the M20K is approved.

 

[aviatoreb]

  On 10/1/2022 at 12:27 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

And, hoping to get back “on topic”, looking for ANYONE that’s been able to get a field approval on a Garmin Auto Pilot for a Rocket??

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But really?  Are you 100% sure that the rocket is specifically excluded?!  The m20k is covered.  And more recent big bore Mooneys are covered - so surely a field approval would be forthcoming if need be.

But where in the paper work does it call out the rocket as specifically excluded?

Maybe you could shop around shops that won't call out a grey not-rule rule and just install it and sign off on it as properly installed by the stc?

This said - I cannot remember who - but I want to say someone here DID have the gfc500 in their rocket.

[aviatoreb]

  On 10/1/2022 at 12:12 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

And to add to that, the same challenge handed to me in my MOONEY would have likely been fatal (comments by several experts that knew my complete final flight parameters).   I explain later to those wondering why later!

 

Tom

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Well thank goodness Tom.  Well done and knock on wood.

Now you will have to tell us how the Mooney would have been more likely a bad outcome please at some point.

Yes indeed - at 500 ft it doesn't matter how the engine fails - just that it did. 

[Yooper Rocketman]

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:26 AM, aviatoreb said:

Well thank goodness Tom.  Well done and knock on wood.

Now you will have to tell us how the Mooney would have been more likely a bad outcome please at some point.

Yes indeed - at 500 ft it doesn't matter how the engine fails - just that it did. 

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I hit a 5” hardwood tree at 8’ AGL on the way in.  It sheared of 40% of my right wing.  Being carbon fiber, it simply sheared off.  Had it been an aluminum wing it would likely have not sheared off and my flight path would have been altered significantly to the right into large hardwoods, resulting in a much different outcome.  

Just a matter of unique circumstances  

 

Tom

[Yooper Rocketman]

My FBO says Garmin is specific in knowing ANY STC’s on an aircraft that is going to have their A/P installed in.  The Rocket is very specifically excluded from the approval list.  My buddy, the FBO Owner, is of the opinion there’s not enough airframes in the fleet for Garmin to spend the resources and money to get an approval, not actually a valid reason they’re excluded. 
 

And apparently the “Field Approval” is not normally submitted until the installation is completed.  That leaves him AND me in a pretty precarious situation, “Hoping it’s approved” after the $60k to $80k upgrade is completed.

Knowing of a previously approved “Field Approval” drops the risk down significantly from being the FIRST to submit for it  

Tom

[aviatoreb]

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:46 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

My FBO says Garmin is specific in knowing ANY STC’s on an aircraft that is going to have their A/P installed in.  The Rocket is very specifically excluded from the approval list.  My buddy, the FBO Owner, is of the opinion there’s not enough airframes in the fleet for Garmin to spend the resources and money to get an approval, not actually a valid reason they’re excluded. 
 

And apparently the “Field Approval” is not normally submitted until the installation is completed.  That leaves him AND me in a pretty precarious situation, “Hoping it’s approved” after the $60k to $80k upgrade is completed.

Knowing of a previously approved “Field Approval” drops the risk down significantly from being the FIRST to submit for it  

Tom

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I had my prop field approval before I installed it.  I’m not sure if that’s a proper precedent.

 

Edited October 1, 2022 by aviatoreb

[goodyFAB]

  On 10/1/2022 at 12:57 AM, GeeBee said:

I keep looking for the paper that says the Rocket is not approved. A Rocket is an M20K with an engine STC. All I see is the M20K is approved.

 

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yeah im a little confused ... its an m20k ... 

I can't find anything that says a rocket is excluded. I also have zero experience with this but im curious now 

[louisut]

  On 10/1/2022 at 1:46 AM, Yooper Rocketman said:

My FBO says Garmin is specific in knowing ANY STC’s on an aircraft that is going to have their A/P installed in.  The Rocket is very specifically excluded from the approval list.  My buddy, the FBO Owner, is of the opinion there’s not enough airframes in the fleet for Garmin to spend the resources and money to get an approval, not actually a valid reason they’re excluded. 
 

And apparently the “Field Approval” is not normally submitted until the installation is completed.  That leaves him AND me in a pretty precarious situation, “Hoping it’s approved” after the $60k to $80k upgrade is completed.

Knowing of a previously approved “Field Approval” drops the risk down significantly from being the FIRST to submit for it  

Tom

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Pretty sure @PJClark has a GFC500 installed in his Rocket. Here's a thread with a pic of his panel: 

 

[Yooper Rocketman]

Now that looks like a Garmin A/P in a Rocket!!

I will try to find the thread on that installation @PJClark (if there is one). 
 

Tom

[201Steve]

You should find another shop to install this thing in your M20k. Your m20k…..
 

Or continue to torture yourself in the unending morass of interpretation. seems like you will find the right answer while simultaneously finding the wrong answer. 
 

-

[PJClark]

Ok, just saw I'm being paged...

I agree with @201Steve...find another shop if you own a Rocket and are trying to have a GFC500 installed in it.  @Yooper Rocketman are you trying to get one installed?  Where is this FBO?

I just screenshot this from the Garmin site, highlighted for your reference. Mentions nothing  about a Rocket being "specifically excluded". You will note if you go to that site there's an * after the Socata Trinidad and at the bottom it says "some serial numbers excluded"...so they could have done that here if there was an issue.

in any case, I have a Rocket and my GFC500 is installed with a 337.  If you need one, call AATG, I'm sure they'll be happy to do it for you.  Stop visiting that FBO in the meantime...