Stormscope vs XM vs ADSB

[ChristianGodin]

I am a newly IFR licenced pilot flying a 201, previoutly flying a float plane (1000 hrs). 

My 201 is equiped with a G430, a G496 witk XM, an electric an vacum DG. 

To fly IFR in general is it better to get a stormscope, an ADSB or my XM do the job. Also is it possible to get a radar at a reasonable investment. 

[pjsny78]

I don’t have any experience with ADS-B but my XM Connected to my 696 is amazing. When I am outside of the coverage area and have to rely on my storm scope I am really missing the XM. I love it, especially when ATC knows you have it and asks you for weather updates.

[gregwatts]

I have a 696 with XM and I love it. I had a Stormscope in another Mooney but I prefer XM

[M20F]

You should check what your coverage is in Canada for ADS-B and XM, will probably make the decision a lot easier.

[PTK]

My airplane came with stormscope in the panel. I don't have datalink weather. My feeling is that the stormscope is worth a lot more in the panel than out. Had I to choose datalink or stormscope I probably would not install the latter and go with XM.

I'm waiting to see when the dust settles with the ADSB tax hike. We may get free datalink weather? But I don't think so. It's a bone the FAA should throw to us. After all they should save money when they phase out ground eq. and transfer the cost to us by making us buy more avionics!

 

[bnicolette]

A stormscope in my opinion is not extremely useful in our airplanes.  They were great back when they were installed and depending on what kind of flying you're going to be doing, but these days with XM weather, there is really no need for them.  If it's already in your panel, it works, and you don't need the space, I sure wouldn't remove it.  I took mine out to install an electric attitude indicator and a JPI 830.  I didn't plan on penetrating any storm cells in the Mooney or really anything I fly so looking for lightning strikes was not going to be a problem for me.

They were a nice tool years ago to go along with inflight wx radar to look at storm intensities and activity when picking your way through.  However, with the invent of XM weather giving an accurate birds eye view of convective activity their just not that useful.

My opinion only.

[PTK]

Brett, your opinion is very valuable because you speak from bread and butter flying experience! If you say a stormscope is worthless then it is! When ADSB settles I' m taking mine out also.

[Cruiser]

I just had my stormscope removed during a panel upgrade. I do not have XM or ADS-B.

While it was in I used it, and found it helpful. But here's the thing. I fly IFR and I am comfortable flying approaches to minimums but I WILL NOT fly into thunderstorms. Most of my flights are between one and two hours. If I can not get a good enough picture of the weather in the next two hours during my preflight and it is severe enough to be of concern that I need in cockpit weather, I am not going in the first place.

If the weather changes enroute and is severe enough to be of concern, ATC will have that picture for me. i.e. turn left, turn right etc.

For most pilots I think XM weather is more of a cool factor not a primary weather tool. i.e. anyone launching into bad weather and thinking that XM weather is going to keep them safe is fooling themselves.

ADS-B is government supplied XM weather. We shall see how long it remains a free service.

[bnicolette]

Quote: allsmiles

Brett, your opinion is very valuable because you speak from bread and butter flying experience! If you say a stormscope is worthless then it is! When ADSB settles I' m taking mine out also.

[BorealOne]

Depends on where you fly. ADS-B isn't an option in Canada, so that's out.

XM weather is good, as long as you don't get to far north of 53 - up here, coverage is very limited (pretty much just METARS, satellite imagery and model generated data like winds) and reception is often unreliable w/ only a dash-mount antenna. 

I've found the stormscope works wherever and whenever I've flown. I like the real-time data it gives me. But that said, I wouldn't install a stormscope if there wasn't already one in my plane. I'd analogize them to an ADF - simple, reliable and they work everywhere, but they are definitely yesterday's tech.

 

[takair]

I have a stormscope and XM on a 396.  Here in the south, both are helpful even if you are not flying hard IFR.  XM will show precip that is not picked up by the stormscope and the stormscope will show building cumulous before the XM (I have the basic XM package, so can't speak for its lightning capability).  In both cases I use them primarilly for strategic planning, to circle weather rather than penetrate.  I would not recommend investing in radar for a Mooney.  The antenna is too small and does not do a great job.  With a small antenna it takes a good knowledge of radar and lots of weather experience to interpret.  Can't speak for ADS-B yet.  Just starting to get interested myself.  Will look forward to pireps.

[ChristianGodin]

This is great, I am a new member of this association and I get valuable and professionnal answers to my questions faster than a strike. 

What a good forum... Thank you to all...

[jlunseth]

@cruiser -  The thing about XM is that it puts you, and not ATC, in charge of deciding what is a safe route.  There are regrettably instances on record where ATC put a pilot someplace they should not have, and it was the pilot who suffered, not the controller.  Controllers mostly deal with the big iron, so may not have the best frame of reference for deciding what is safe for your Mooney and what is not.  Hopefully, no one plans on flying into Tstorms, and that is what is great about XM, you can see what weather is several hundred miles ahead of you, where it is going, and what you are going to need to get around it, or if you need to just go to ground and wait it out.  We use it all the time to decide on deviations, big cloud ahead, you need to go left or right around it, not obvious which one is the blind alley, XM will tell you.  A front ahead and clouds are dark and cumulus, does it have the kind of energy you need to avoid, or is it just all rain, XM will tell you that too. 

I feel safer once I am in the air using the XM and the Mark I eyeball, than I feel on the ground with a report from FSS or even looking through all the stuff available on ADDS.

[Jeff_S]

I've flown behind XM WX for six years, but never had a StormScope. I don't think I'd miss it, though, because XM allows you to get a much more strategic picture of the weather and plan your route accordingly. It also lets you interface ATC with much knowledge when you are trying to get  a reroute around weather, as you can determine which vectors you really want.

[GTWreck]

One thing to keep in mind in the XM vs ADS-B discussion: XM works while you're on the ground, ADS-B doesn't start getting a data feed until you're in the air, sometimes a couple thousand AGL. 

[kortopates]

I've been a Stormscope and satellite weather user ever since Satellite wx has been available. I've found it so helpful I wouldn't want to fly a long x-ctry's with possible weather without it.

I also still love my spherics device for the additional advantages and capabilities it provides over and above satellite wx. First of all, the lightning strikes that XM provides are almost worthless because they only show air-to-ground strikes characteristic of a mature t-cell. By the time ground strikes appear, you should also see precipt on the nexrad. My WX-500 is modern spheric sensor that is connected to MFD GMX200 (& GNS430's) - so its displaying strikes on my primary map display along with my satellite wx for improved situational awareness. But its real advantages are three fold. Firstly it's real time as opposed to your satellite wx and secondly shows cloud-to-cloud strikes which begin to occur as the t-cell is building and well before you'll see any signs of precipt. Thirdly spherics devices in strike mode can also indicate a false positive from very strong turbulence in building cu. Although a false positive, its still pointing to a condition very worth avoiding. Fourthly, its all I have when flying out of range of satellite nexrad which is always the case when I am enjoying my Mooney on an international adventure. Although Canada is an exception, Nexrad is still very limited; especially in western Canada and non-existent in Mexico, Bahamas’ and Caribbean. So I would never toss mine out and as mentioned it doesn’t take up any extra panel space either.

I am doubtful I’ll be giving up XM for ADS-B weather anytime soon just because XM provides so many more useful products – plus I am hooked on having XM radio for those x-ctry’s too.

[pjsny78]

Quote: kortopates

I've been a Stormscope and satellite weather user ever since Satellite wx has been available. I've found it so helpful I wouldn't want to fly a long x-ctry's with possible weather without it.

I also still love my spherics device for the additional advantages and capabilities it provides over and above satellite wx. First of all, the lightning strikes that XM provides are almost worthless because they only show air-to-ground strikes characteristic of a mature t-cell. By the time ground strikes appear, you should also see precipt on the nexrad. My WX-500 is modern spheric sensor that is connected to MFD GMX200 (& GNS430's) - so its displaying strikes on my primary map display along with my satellite wx for improved situational awareness. But its real advantages are three fold. Firstly it's real time as opposed to your satellite wx and secondly shows cloud-to-cloud strikes which begin to occur as the t-cell is building and well before you'll see any signs of precipt. Thirdly spherics devices in strike mode can also indicate a false positive from very strong turbulence in building cu. Although a false positive, its still pointing to a condition very worth avoiding. Fourthly, its all I have when flying out of range of satellite nexrad which is always the case when I am enjoying my Mooney on an international adventure. Although Canada is an exception, Nexrad is still very limited; especially in western Canada and non-existent in Mexico, Bahamas’ and Caribbean. So I would never toss mine out and as mentioned it doesn’t take up any extra panel space either.

I am doubtful I’ll be giving up XM for ADS-B weather anytime soon just because XM provides so many more useful products – plus I am hooked on having XM radio for those x-ctry’s t

You are right on about the radio. We totally skipped the radio aspect of XM. It’s hard to be without that. I have Bluetooth connectivity in my plane streamed to my ipad but I really do prefer the XM radio for the wide variety. Hard to live without.