WTB: Turbo & TKS/FIKI Mooney

[PhateX1337]

Got my new Bravo through a Mooneyspace connection - thanks all!

Edited July 4, 2022 by PhateX1337
Found!

[StevenL757]

2 hours ago, PhateX1337 said:

I know it's a long shot, but figured can't hurt to post - I'm looking to upgrade from my J to a Turbo & TKS (FIKI or Inadvertent) Mooney - ideally an Encore or Bravo.

Would also consider an Ovation, but preference is definitely a Turbo. Let me know if you have any leads. I've already been talking with Jimmy and browsing, but of course there is historically low inventory at the moment. Figure it can't hurt to ask this group!

It'll free up a J to be posted here as soon as I can close on a new bird!

I see you're based just north of me.  Unless you're looking to cross very high mountains, or just really want to fly in the upper teens to low-twenties, I'd personally avoid the turbo in our part of the world.  Although a turbo is a "nice to have" around here, it's an added maintenance expense you can probably do without.  If you're West-coast based, then it's a different story.  A turbo is almost a must-have.

The Ovation gives me performance that can only be beaten by a turbo above, say, roughly 12k, but then my Ovation with standard 102USG tanks will have better range capability.  Your choice tho.

Just my $0.02.

[aviatoreb]

33 minutes ago, StevenL757 said:

I see you're based just north of me.  Unless you're looking to cross very high mountains, or just really want to fly in the upper teens to low-twenties, I'd personally avoid the turbo in our part of the world.  Although a turbo is a "nice to have" around here, it's an added maintenance expense you can probably do without.  If you're West-coast based, then it's a different story.  A turbo is almost a must-have.

The Ovation gives me performance that can only be beaten by a turbo above, say, roughly 12k, but then my Ovation with standard 102USG tanks will have better range capability.  Your choice tho.

Just my $0.02.

I respect that opinion entirely.  But when I was shopping and thinking of tks, I decided turbo is a piece of the ice package.  I figured if I was at say 12k or 14k and I screwed up and I am in ice, then the immediate action is to try and get out of ice - so fiki or no fiki is all the same to me since I never launch thinking there is ice but I want to get out quick.  Sometimes the solution might be to climb out and I wanted the option to climb out of ice with authority.  I was convinced by that line of argument clearly.  Likewise also, just for climbing through a thin higher altitude layer, I wanted to charge through it even if there is not supposed to be ice in it.  

That said, I especially respect an ovation for excess power to rather high.  And the rare bird - a missile with tks is neat too.  There is an owner of such a rare bird who is a regular poster here.

[PhateX1337]

Thanks both - agree with both sentiments. I've actually moved to KLUK area now - still not mountainous by any stretch of the imagination, but I do intend to fly to/from CO/WY multiple times per year, as well as to FL multiple times a year. Both areas/missions I want to have a turbo for ... mountains out west & popup storms in FL. And the longer legs of a Encore or Bravo with long range tanks :). Definitely open to the right Ovation as well though if the opportunity arises!

[ilovecornfields]

I think there are plenty of these planes out there- it just depends on how much you are willing to pay. If you want one now it probably won't be cheap. Have you spoken with any of the brokers?

[StevenL757]

11 minutes ago, PhateX1337 said:

Thanks both - agree with both sentiments. I've actually moved to KLUK area now - still not mountainous by any stretch of the imagination, but I do intend to fly to/from CO/WY multiple times per year, as well as to FL multiple times a year. Both areas/missions I want to have a turbo for ... mountains out west & popup storms in FL. And the longer legs of a Encore or Bravo with long range tanks :). Definitely open to the right Ovation as well though if the opportunity arises!

Be advised - you may know this already, but if you do go with something that has Monroy long-range tanks, your UL with max gas aboard is pretty-much limited to you and a bag of potato chips.

It sounds like you know your intended missions pretty well and are open to suggestions.  Looking forward to seeing which way you go.  As far as narrowing down your choices, doing a PPI and eventually closing on an airplane, a ton of folks here are glad to help.

[PhateX1337]

Thanks - appreciate it! Recognize the long range tanks, especially when TKS is added, leave room for a half-full bag of potato chips at best - would only fill them on rare occasions!

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

when I was shopping and thinking of tks, I decided turbo is a piece of the ice package

Bingo!  Me too.

[hypertech]

1 hour ago, aviatoreb said:

I respect that opinion entirely.  But when I was shopping and thinking of tks, I decided turbo is a piece of the ice package.  I figured if I was at say 12k or 14k and I screwed up and I am in ice, then the immediate action is to try and get out of ice - so fiki or no fiki is all the same to me since I never launch thinking there is ice but I want to get out quick.  Sometimes the solution might be to climb out and I wanted the option to climb out of ice with authority.  I was convinced by that line of argument clearly.  Likewise also, just for climbing through a thin higher altitude layer, I wanted to charge through it even if there is not supposed to be ice in it.  

That said, I especially respect an ovation for excess power to rather high.  And the rare bird - a missile with tks is neat too.  There is an owner of such a rare bird who is a regular poster here.

On the east coast and midwest, if you are at 12k and find ice and the tops require "charging", you are going the wrong direction.  Ice is more often in the tops of the clouds and if the tops are above 12/14, they could be really high.  Warmer air is below you.  Descend.  The problem ice is usually the layer at 1-4k agl that you get stuck lingering in on the approach.  Turbo won't help you there.

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, hypertech said:

On the east coast and midwest, if you are at 12k and find ice and the tops require "charging", you are going the wrong direction.  Ice is more often in the tops of the clouds and if the tops are above 12/14, they could be really high.  Warmer air is below you.  Descend.  The problem ice is usually the layer at 1-4k agl that you get stuck lingering in on the approach.  Turbo won't help you there.

That is not always correct.  It is not always about getting over the tops.  There can simply be a 3k or so layer of icing.  Clouds the whole way.  It can also be cold below.  So descending may be good but not necessarily.

[carusoam]

+1 for fiki + turbo + 310hp…

Dan has the 130g and a small bag of chips… small enough he can bring his wife… 

East of the Great Lakes… is a great place to have a pair of snails… to go with your FIKI…

+1 for statistical outlooks on where the ice is going to be…

+2 for having the hardware to go up or down depending on the ice you have right now….

 

Now….

If you like to gamble on the future…

The Gross weight increase for LBs project is still alive…. As of today.

Select what you want to have, be ready to pull the trigger when it becomes available…

Best regards,

-a-

[flyingscot]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

 

The Gross weight increase for LBs project is still alive…. As of today.

 

LBs project?

 

Edit ... pls disregard. Found the thread 

[irishpilot]

Here's my perspective as I owned a Bravo and now fly behind an IO-550N, albeit mounted in a Lancair ES. The Bravo has a higher pilot task loading than an Ovation due to engine management with the turbo. It also doesn't typically like to be flown LOP, and has a limited UL with FIKI (mine was 862 UL).

It is an awesome high-alt 2 person+bag cross country platform, or 3 person with half tanks and day bags. It is not a 4 person aircraft. I had standard tanks and it was good for 700 miles a 29"/2400 and 900 at 27"/2200rpm. I planned for 18-19 gph when flying 29"/2400.

The IO-550G or N is a sweet running engine. Better T/O performance and it'll run LOP all day long and twice on Sunday. It's dead simple to operate and has a very wide power band curve.

Bottom line, if you can find an Ovation or Bravo with FIKI, I'd take a hard look at how much time you'd really need at high alt. As a data point, this winter I flew my Lancair from TX to NV, NM, twice to AZ, and twice to CO. I limited myself to no flying in IMC over the Rockies and no flying in areas of forecast icing and only had to do small mods to my routes and altitudes.

Lastly, both are awesome and long bodies are super comfortable. Best of luck in your search!

Sent from my motorola one 5G ace using Tapatalk

[PhateX1337]

1 hour ago, irishpilot said:

Here's my perspective as I owned a Bravo and now fly behind an IO-550N, albeit mounted in a Lancair ES. The Bravo has a higher pilot task loading than an Ovation due to engine management with the turbo. It also doesn't typically like to be flown LOP, and has a limited UL with FIKI (mine was 862 UL).

It is an awesome high-alt 2 person+bag cross country platform, or 3 person with half tanks and day bags. It is not a 4 person aircraft. I had standard tanks and it was good for 700 miles a 29"/2400 and 900 at 27"/2200rpm. I planned for 18-19 gph when flying 29"/2400.

The IO-550G or N is a sweet running engine. Better T/O performance and it'll run LOP all day long and twice on Sunday. It's dead simple to operate and has a very wide power band curve.

Bottom line, if you can find an Ovation or Bravo with FIKI, I'd take a hard look at how much time you'd really need at high alt. As a data point, this winter I flew my Lancair from TX to NV, NM, twice to AZ, and twice to CO. I limited myself to no flying in IMC over the Rockies and no flying in areas of forecast icing and only had to do small mods to my routes and altitudes.

Lastly, both are awesome and long bodies are super comfortable. Best of luck in your search!

Sent from my motorola one 5G ace using Tapatalk
 

Thanks, great observations and comparison with ES!