Hangar advice in the Austin area?

[northaustinmooneypilot]

Hello! I'm trying to rent a hangar in the Austin area for a Mooney and am looking for any recommendations, advice, or leads. 

 

I came across this helpful thread from 2016 but figured it would be good to start a new topic since I'm sure the situation has changed in the last 6 years - but if anyone else is looking in Austin, there's some good info there.

A little more info: I'm actually not the person who owns or is going to be flying the Mooney but I'm trying to help my family by looking for a hangar space. My dad owns a Mooney from the '60s that he loves and has flown regularly and babied for the last couple decades but now he can't fly it anymore. My brother is licensed to fly it and has trained in it specifically but has never owned and stored his own plane. They came to a deal where as long as my brother pays for a hangar down here (it's currently in a different state) and all the upkeep, he can keep the Mooney down here and fly it for a year or two until my dad sells it. So that brings us to trying to find a hangar space in the Austin area to rent, which if you live here, you know - that's tough. We live in North Austin so I immediately looked at the Georgetown Airport and they're on an 8-year-waitlist. Yikes! 

The previous thread I linked mentioned a bunch of small airports in the area so I'm going to check them all out but I'd love some up-to-date insight and advice if anyone has any to spare. Because this will be a temporary situation - probably a year or two - getting on a really long waitlist or buying a hangar space really doesn't make sense for us. If it's possible to sublet a space from someone who maybe has a hangar space but no plane at the moment and doesn't want to lose their spot, that could be ideal. If y'all know anyone in that situation or know a place where I could look into that, please let me know. Any leads are appreciated! Thanks!

[Mcstealth]

Welcome to the form. Your brother also. Good luck in your search. Being a couple hours South in Kerrville I can offer no advice, only well wishes. Be patient and don't get discouraged. Happy flying

[aggiepilot04]

This was years ago, but my strategy was to get on the list at Bergstrom (Signature manages the T-hangars) and park in shared hangar space in San Marcos while waiting. Last I checked, hangar space was readily available down there. The list was about a year and a half long at Bergstrom back then, but it's likely longer now. I've been on the list for a bigger hangar (I no longer have enough seats in my Mooney and considering something bigger...thanks Covid), and I've been #3 on that list for a year now...no movement.

I'm downtown though...San Marcos may be too far from North Austin, but depending on where you are, maybe you can easily jump on the 85 mph toll loop.

Not sure if there are hangars in Taylor, but it's worth checking out there as well.

 

[northaustinmooneypilot]

Thank you very much for the advice!

[aggiepilot04]

*If* I'm lucky enough to move up the list for the bigger hangar soon, I'd be happy to rent it to you until I find the bigger airplane. Just have to figure out the paperwork on that.

[Gabriel]

I would ask the Austin Pilot Facebook Group to get any current update. I've only heard of space in San Marcos, TX. You may try posting a flyer at Georgetown, KEDC, or T74 in the pilot's lounge asking for assistance. Everyone wants a hanger and is waiting on a list. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Gabriel!

Best regards,

-a-

[Darren Nix]

Given the long waiting list all the Austin area airports, there's a lot of money to be made for whoever builds some new hangars to rent them out... curious why nobody's jumping on that windfall opportunity?

[Parker_Woodruff]

22 minutes ago, Darren Nix said:

Given the long waiting list all the Austin area airports, there's a lot of money to be made for whoever builds some new hangars to rent them out... curious why nobody's jumping on that windfall opportunity?

Probably slow moving airport authorities/municipalities.

Texas property taxes also eat into the margin quite a bit.

[Fly Boomer]

22 minutes ago, Darren Nix said:

Given the long waiting list all the Austin area airports, there's a lot of money to be made for whoever builds some new hangars to rent them out... curious why nobody's jumping on that windfall opportunity?

I'm no contractor, but just some imaginary numbers:

$6,000,000 to build a 10-tee hangar with insulation (at least on the roof), top-quality bifold doors, lots of electrical outlets, two 15 or 20 amp circuits into each tee, good pre-build grading, good drainage, good pre-build soil compaction, good steel in the concrete floors

These are nice hangars, so we will charge $500/mo x10 renters x12 months = $60,000/yr gross income

$6,000,000 / $60,000 = 100 year pay back without considering electrical costs, maintenance, insurance, land lease, etc.

[Darren Nix]

The average T-hangar is 1,000 sqft.  The price estimates I've seen to build one range from $30-150 per square foot. Keep in mind, $150-200/sqft is what you can build a modest house for so I'm guessing the real number is more in the $100/sqft range.   

So we're talking $1M investment.  Given the length of the 9-year backlog e.g. Georgetown, I think you'd still have a long waitlist of people willing to pay $1,000/month.   That's an 8.3 year payback period. 

Those are better numbers than you'd get in residential or commercial construction by a wide margin.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Darren Nix

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, Darren Nix said:

The average T-hangar is 1,000 sqft.  The price estimates I've seen to build one range from $30-150 per square foot. Keep in mind, $150-200/sqft is what you can build a modest house for so I'm guessing the real number is more in the $100/sqft range.   

So we're talking $1M investment.  Given the length of the 9-year backlog e.g. Georgetown, I think you'd still have a long waitlist of people willing to pay $1,000/month.   That's an 8.3 year payback period. 

Those are better numbers than you'd get in residential or commercial construction by a wide margin.

I think you have found a better investment than I thought.

[carusoam]

The nice thing you have found…

Austin is a growing area… full up with tech people…

But, it is a two part investment…. A large chunk o dough… + a ton of effort…  a full time job looking after your dough. 

 

There is a couple of examples around here that shows what is involved with building hangars… from a large box, to a row of tees…

In other places… there are fewer interested people in the area…. Leading to more risk to your success…

Kinda a get wealthier slowly plan… with the risk of all those tech people not affording a plane because of (fill in the reason).

 

Go for it!

PP thoughts only, not an entrepreneur…

Best regards,

-a-

[aggiepilot04]

35 minutes ago, carusoam said:

The nice thing you have found…

Austin is a growing area… full up with tech people…

But, it is a two part investment…. A large chunk o dough… + a ton of effort…  a full time job looking after your dough. 

 

There is a couple of examples around here that shows what is involved with building hangars… from a large box, to a row of tees…

In other places… there are fewer interested people in the area…. Leading to more risk to your success…

Kinda a get wealthier slowly plan… with the risk of all those tech people not affording a plane because of (fill in the reason).

 

Go for it!

PP thoughts only, not an entrepreneur…

Best regards,

-a-

LLM. That reason will be LLM.

[smwash02]

There's been an ongoing discussion about hangars being built in Lockhart. It's been approved I was told, but haven't seen any movement.

Something that's held me back from considering it is most land leases are 30-40 years and if you get the extension rejected, it's now the city's.

[1980Mooney]

Many here seem to be under the delusion that municipalities actually want more General Aviation.  Most GA airports are owned by municipalities.  And most municipalities lose money on airport operations. - hangar, landing and fuel fees are hard pressed to cover expenses with massive amounts of land and perimeter to maintain.  Security requirements since 9/11 are costly and difficult to manage.  Most need Federal handouts for capital improvements. For instance, Texas receives the largest Block Grant of funds for GA airports - $27 million in 2022....(think of it as "airport welfare")

Municipal airports are more likely to make money catering to business aircraft - higher fuel sales, more professional, less risk, large hangar rents, easier to manage security, etc.  GA pilots are more of a headache- using their hangar for home storage, dumping leaded fuel on the ground, driving cars near aircraft and sometimes into, etc.

Since they are owned by Municipalities, citizens have to vote for funding and bonds.  We pilots forget that the general public think of us the most entitled special interest group on the world - a bunch a rich people making noise all times of the day. 

 

[hubcap]

7 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Many here seem to be under the delusion that municipalities actually want more General Aviation.  Most GA airports are owned by municipalities.  And most municipalities lose money on airport operations. - hangar, landing and fuel fees are hard pressed to cover expenses with massive amounts of land and perimeter to maintain.  Security requirements since 9/11 are costly and difficult to manage.  Most need Federal handouts for capital improvements. For instance, Texas receives the largest Block Grant of funds for GA airports - $27 million in 2022....(think of it as "airport welfare")

Municipal airports are more likely to make money catering to business aircraft - higher fuel sales, more professional, less risk, large hangar rents, easier to manage security, etc.  GA pilots are more of a headache- using their hangar for home storage, dumping leaded fuel on the ground, driving cars near aircraft and sometimes into, etc.

Since they are owned by Municipalities, citizens have to vote for funding and bonds.  We pilots forget that the general public think of us the most entitled special interest group on the world - a bunch a rich people making noise all times of the day. 

 

These comments are spot on. I am on the board of our local municipal airport, and you are correct that the public nor the municipality have any interest in single engine piston aircraft. Our airport gets enough business traffic that it is self-funding with fuel sales.

T-hangers are not profitable. I calculated about a 10 year payback before interest rates went up. At current interest rates it’s probably a ~15 year payback.

[hammdo]

Hate to say it but, these comments are where things are going - business traffic is where the money is. Our ‘instance’ of GA is just not a moneymaker. Renting hangers and selling 100LL/G100UL to us is not enough to keep the doors open. 
 

Airparks/home combos may be it in the future…

-Don

[Mcstealth]

Kerrville has an open offer for any contractor to build hangers, with a 99yr lease. The FBO, the airport board, and others have said there is no money in it, at least not enough money. 

 

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 4/10/2023 at 6:23 PM, Mcstealth said:

Kerrville has an open offer for any contractor to build hangers, with a 99yr lease. The FBO, the airport board, and others have said there is no money in it, at least not enough money. 

 

 

If all the city and county are looking at is the cost to build vs. how many years they will see a return just on rent, it's hard to make a case for it. Having availability of more hangars at a local airport provides a lot more economic impact on the city than just hangar rent - more fuel sales, more people driving to your city from other areas, shopping, eating, buying homes, etc. Plus usually after 8-12 years the investment is back and then it's just maintenance on the hangars for the rent collected, which is a very low cost. Forward-looking city development sees that and raises money through municipal bonds for development like that. If there's a waiting list for hangars, there's an opportunity for someone.

[Schllc]

On 4/5/2023 at 6:23 PM, Darren Nix said:

The average T-hangar is 1,000 sqft.  The price estimates I've seen to build one range from $30-150 per square foot. Keep in mind, $150-200/sqft is what you can build a modest house for so I'm guessing the real number is more in the $100/sqft range.   

So we're talking $1M investment.  Given the length of the 9-year backlog e.g. Georgetown, I think you'd still have a long waitlist of people willing to pay $1,000/month.   That's an 8.3 year payback period. 

Those are better numbers than you'd get in residential or commercial construction by a wide margin.

I’ve built hangars recently, and bid others. I’m not sure where you are getting your cost information but $30 sqft is just fantasy land, and $150 is extremely questionable. 
Architectural plans, structural/civil engineering, site work, land lease, property acquisition, metal building, electrical, hangar door, fire suppression, carry cost for the two years it takes to get approved and built, not to mention what other hoops the airport and municipality invent along the way. 
If it was as lucrative, easy and cheap as you suggest the developers would already be there. 
 

The FAA provides grants to airports for things like this, so it’s like free money to the airport and they don’t care about ROI. 
A hangar just got built at my home field, it’s a single hangar, and large enough for a G650.  It was nice with an office, but still a hangar, it cost north of $7,000,000.   
5 years ago our construction prices were much higher than Texas, and while they still are higher, they are closer than not now…

[JDIII]

On 3/24/2022 at 11:13 AM, aggiepilot04 said:

This was years ago, but my strategy was to get on the list at Bergstrom (Signature manages the T-hangars) and park in shared hangar space in San Marcos while waiting. Last I checked, hangar space was readily available down there. The list was about a year and a half long at Bergstrom back then, but it's likely longer now. I've been on the list for a bigger hangar (I no longer have enough seats in my Mooney and considering something bigger...thanks Covid), and I've been #3 on that list for a year now...no movement.

I'm downtown though...San Marcos may be too far from North Austin, but depending on where you are, maybe you can easily jump on the 85 mph toll loop.

Not sure if there are hangars in Taylor, but it's worth checking out there as well.

 

Can I pick your brain on this at some point? I'm not really a member of this forum but I'm trying to get some basic knowledge of the hangar space in the austin area! Cheers.

[Mcstealth]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:00 AM, JDIII said:

Can I pick your brain on this at some point? I'm not really a member of this forum but I'm trying to get some basic knowledge of the hangar space in the austin area! Cheers.

JD, welcome to the forum. Please stick around and add to it if you wish. There is a wealth of knowledge here from the members. 

Good luck on your search.

@aggiepilot04 you are being pinged.

David

[aggiepilot04]

Happy to answer any questions I can. Ask away.


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