gpss rollsteering

[mooney2201]

has anyone installed a gpss roll steering on their kfc 200 autopilot..which brand, and how well does it work

[PTK]

I researched these to great lengths as I have the KFC150. I haven't decided because I'm still contemplating the G500 route. The best is the GDC31 from DAC. The advice I've been given is to stay far away from Icarus! I'd suggest you speak to autopilot shops and get their advice. Not general avionics shops but specialized autopilot shops. They know autopilots. Autopilot Central is an excellent one. Barry and Bob are extremely knowledgeable and willing to help.

[jsimmons619]

Although It's not a direct answer to your question, I can state that I had a DAC GDC31 installed with my KAP150.  It's coupled to my Garmin 430W and I'm very happy with the results.  I had mine installed by NexAir, located in Mansfield, MA.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jsimmons619

Although It's not a direct answer to your question, I can state that I had a DAC GDC31 installed with my KAP150.  It's coupled to my Garmin 430W and I'm very happy with the results.  I had mine installed by NexAir, located in Mansfield, MA.

[jsimmons619]

It's hard to say how much the actual cost of the installation of the DAC GDC31 since it was part of a package price that included the Garmin 430W and other panel changes.  It appears to be $400 for the GPSS installation, but keep in mind that the panel was already completely apart for other changes.

[jlunseth]

And the reason for staying away from the Icarus is?

I have one, and the KFC200, and the Icarus is a great unit.  The roll steering is seamless, and what you get in addition is aural alerts for a bunch of things, including a GUMPS alert on approach and an altitude alert in climb, so you don't blow through your assigned altitude.  I looked at the DAC when I got my Icarus, and it had none of that.

[PTK]

The way it was explained to me is that with DAC and the GDC31 you are buying a known quantity. Not so with Icarus. Similar to the Garmin vs Aspen decision. Garmin and DAC being the benchmarks others are compared to.

[jlunseth]

Well, that sounds to me like a shop that sells and installs DAC.  Icarus works really well.  The shop I chose recommended a DAC also, I chose Icarus, and it was a little more challenging for them to figure out how to install it because all the alerts needed to be wired up, but it worked out really well.

You can disable the alerts if you don't want them.  But the Icarus in my plane works flawlessly.

The KFC200 also works fairly well, but I have encountered a couple of issues with it that others also have.  It does not always do a good job of coupling to a glide slope from below.  For example, GS intercept is 2700 and ATC puts you on a vector and altitude of 2500.  It won't always couple.

It also won't always couple if you let GPSS and the AP fly the airplane to the FAF before you switch to APCH.  You need to switch to APCH at least a couple of miles before the FAF.  These are glitches with the 200 though, not with the GPSS.  The failure to couple from below, for example, can happen on a plain vanilla ILS, no GPSS involved. 

[AndyFromCB]

Allsmiles,

You are a royal pain in the ass. You said

Stay far away from Icarus!

with an exclamation point non the less. Like if you knew some kind of a secret where the Icarus has been known to roll steer people into the nearest high obstacle and then when asked all you can come up with is a feeble little response:

DAC and the GDC31 you are buying a known quantity

By that line of reasoning, you should trade in your Mooney (a very unknown quantity at this time) for Cessna with King radios. After all, before Garmin, they were the only known quantity in avionics. What did Garmin do to earn your trust? Take you out to dinner and give you a nice little powerpoint like the drug companies? I assume you're still treating your patients with leaches, then. Or maybe you're not that kind of a doctor. Sick and tired of bashing companies you know nothing about.

[jlunseth]

Well, let's not do that again.  He is entitled to his viewpoint and he is repeating what a shop told him, probably a good shop but a shop with an agenda no doubt. 

I think what the OP wants, and the Forum deserves, is information.

When one tries to provide information, one is not always right.  I know I am not always right, prolly there are others here that are not always right either.  But I have certainly learned alot from the people here, all of them.

[fantom]

Quote: jlunseth

I think what the OP wants, and the Forum deserves, is information.

[PTK]

What I said was speak to autopilot shops, as I did, and draw your own conclusions. Almaszek why don't you do that as well and tell them they are a pain in the ass when they tell you something you don't want to hear. You, Sir, are in no position to critisize. You have no concept of what it is you're refering to. You have proven you are not worthy of an answer; all you want is to start an argument. 

I find this an invaluable forum precisely because we Mooney pilots share experiences and opinions. I shared AN opinion of A professional which you are not.

[jlunseth]

Look.  The Icarus is good, I know that from personal experience because I fly one and have a few hundred hours doing it.  The DAC I have heard is ok too, the shop that installed my Icarus recommended a DAC but I did some research and chose differently, and they did a great job installing it.  With all the alerts the Icarus offers, be prepared to test them all out and go back to the shop to make sure they get it right.  That's all I know.  I am not taking sides on the other issues, and I am out of this one.

[AndyFromCB]

Allsmiles,

I know what I don't know, therefore I do not give out advice based on what a third party told me even if it is autopilot central, whom are now working on my removed autopilot system from my Bravo which if you recall correctly you advised me not to remove myself when it was not the advice I was seeking.

How about we do each other a favor. I'll refrain from ever posting a reply to a thread you started and/or answered, and you do the same when I ask a question on this forum seeking maintenance or any other advice for if this was still the time of printed paper I'd say I have your reply in front of me and soon it will be behind me.

Andy

[PTK]

No Andy, I will not grant you that request. I will post and respond as I see fit. What I do is my decision and not yours. You relax and try not to jump at every opportunity to start an argument. Try hard, I know you can do it.

[Parker_Woodruff]

What is the obsession of aviation manufacturers callin something the "Icarus". Did they not pay attention in their ancient history classes where Icarus falls from the sky?

[AndyFromCB]

That's why I only fly at night ;-) So that the wax Mooney used for tank sealer in certain years doesn't melt.

[PTK]

It would also have been appropriate to use the name Daedalus, the father of Icarus who constructed the wings out of wax and feathers and instructed his son not to fly too close to the sun! Icarus on the other hand is also appropriate as he is viewed as the one who attempted to conquer the skies. 

[jelswick]

Good grief.  Can we cut Allsmiles some slack?  I read through this thread and what he posted was his opinion based on feedback he'd received from I assume a reputable shop.  If I hear information from a mechanic or shop that I reasonably believe might help someone on here, I'd share it and no, there's no guarantee that it is accurate, it's just sharing information we've received.  The tone he was jumped on with looks inappropriate to the tone he was using and just makes what is an otherwise very entertaining and helpful site very frustrating.  We get enough discord elsewhere without people bringing that here.  Feel and share some cheer for the holidays people, please.   

[PTK]

Quote: fantom

I believe what most of us would like is supported fact, rather than second hand opinion stated as fact, and strongly...but that's just me  

[gregwatts]

Quote: jelswick

Good grief. Can we cut Allsmiles some slack? I read through this thread and what he posted was his opinion based on feedback he'd received from I assume a reputable shop. If I hear information from a mechanic or shop that I reasonably believe might help someone on here, I'd share it and no, there's no guarantee that it is accurate, it's just sharing information we've received. The tone he was jumped on with looks inappropriate to the tone he was using and just makes what is an otherwise very entertaining and helpful site very frustrating. We get enough discord elsewhere without people bringing that here. Feel and share some cheer for the holidays people, please.

[fantom]

Quote: allsmiles

The way it was explained to me is that with DAC and the GDC31 you are buying a known quantity. Not so with Icarus. Similar to the Garmin vs Aspen decision. Garmin and DAC being the benchmarks others are compared to.

[PTK]

 

              

[flyboy0681]

Quote: allsmiles

The advice I've been given is to stay far away from Icarus! 

[jlunseth]

Me too.  Performance has been flawless.  I had to actually give an IFR position report once over the Bahamas (despite what the texts teach, these have gone the way of the dinosaur).  Some of the info. is displayed on the 430, but the Icarus button has most of it.  Made it fairly painless, although fetching the syntax from my memory banks was a chore.