IO-360 A1A overhaul recommendations

[bucko]

Hi All,

 

Looking for recommendations for a good shop to overhaul our 1965 M20-E engine, now with about 2,600 pus hours SMOH.  Following the Mike Busch guidelines, I'm not planning to do it until the engine tells me it is time.  Right now, it is running smooth, strong, burning less than a quart of oil every 6-8 hours, etc.

I know the old saying that you can have 2 of 3 things as follows: good, fast,  or inexpensive.

Surely there are shops out there that can do all three.

Have heard good things about Jewel.  Any other recommendations?

Bucko

[A64Pilot]

https://www.gannaviation.com/engine-overhauls

I wouldn’t say cheap,but you get what you pay for.  He is in my opinion one of the better shops, but not yet with the reputation that brings high prices, yet.

Running a engine until the bottom end starts making metal can be a very expensive thing to do, where if you overhaul before it starts chewing it self up, can save you a lot of money in the long run.

If I were you. I’d start thinking about an overhaul pretty seriously.

If it gets to the point of making metal. I’d seriously consider a Lycoming exchange motor as that may be less expensive than a good field overhaul.

Edited September 13, 2021 by A64Pilot

[67 m20F chump]

Gann did my IO-470 and he does great work.  I had to replace my oil pump housing because the motor made metal (spalled lifter).

[GeeBee]

+1 for Gann. Did my O-320 on my SuperCub, fabulous engine.

Not cheap, but overhauls is one thing where you pretty much, not always, get what you pay for.

 

[DCarlton]

Don't know where you're located but I'm very pleased with my IO-360 overhaul from Corona Aircraft Engines.  I'm in SOCAL so I would definitely go there again.  

[Will.iam]

Did any of you do the hi performance overhaul option at Gann?  How much extra was it and what did they do for that option. 

[Igor_U]

I am sure you’ll get many good recommendations but keep in mind the lead time can be 5 months (or more) as I had to wait for my engine from the Factory. Other shops could be longer as they had to wait for parts…

Ordering factory Rebuilt would allow you to fly your good engine while waiting for a new one and then swap it.

Keep in mind that prices increased significantly since early this year! I paid my rebuilt IO360A1A $4000 less than Air Power Inc. listing now. Crazy!

[kris_adams]

4 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Did any of you do the hi performance overhaul option at Gann?  How much extra was it and what did they do for that option. 

I did.  IIRC it was either another 1 or 1.5amu.  It's been a while but I think he ported, polished, and matched the cylinders.  If I'm totally honest here...I'm not even 100% certain what that was supposed to do, but it was another one of those "while we are in there" things.    I can't say I can tell any difference with it as compared to prior to the overhaul.  -K

[A64Pilot]

5 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Did any of you do the hi performance overhaul option at Gann?  How much extra was it and what did they do for that option. 

Mine is a “performance motor” It was done by the PO and years ago, but other than maybe porting and polishing I’m not sure there is much else that can be done.

I believe he balances all motors to less than one gram.

Best to call and ask.

‘Depending on the engine design, there is a whole lot that porting especially the intake can add power wise, but usually your just cleaning up casting flashing etc. on a stock motor

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by A64Pilot

[KSMooniac]

Bucko, you might consider Barrett in Tulsa. They did much of the work for me, including flow matching the cylinders and precision balancing all of the rotating parts. I acted as my own general contractor and sent components out to various shops and handled reassembly when everything was done. I would not hesitate to have them to a full meal deal, though.

I also added the centrilube STC for cam lubrication. That requires shipping the cam to CO for the mod.

Sent from my LM-V405 using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Which ever way you go….

Check the lead times…

The pandemic has put lead times for certain things out into crazy time…

 

Performance options… like flow matching…. If you have this option and you like to fly LOP….  See how LOP your engine will go at about 5k’… if your fuel flow is balanced, and air flow is balanced, your LOP can be run down to about 90°F LOP, before the engine shuts off… from lack of fuel…  fuel:air ratio too low….

If you like to lean until rough, then enrichen til smooth… this can be problematic because there is no rough… it just smoothly turns off….  
 

Great for using every last drop of fuel… as all cylinders will peak pretty close together…

 

 Now… is the juice worth the squeeze…?  Probably for a forever-plane…

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Keith20EH]

Poplar Grove Airmotive, near Rockford, IL, overhauled my A1A.  It was a little frustrating because of cylinder lead times and a few other annoyances, but in the end, I am very satisfied with my engine.  About 175 smoh, and I very happy with the engine.

[Bartman]

At 1950 hrs with 35hr oil changes and 100/yr flying I thought I would be doing well with a rebuild. All it took was a fretted case beyond repair and a single camshaft lobe and the rebuild became more expensive and if I had know those two details I would have sent my A3B6D in for exchange. 
 

At 2,600 hrs you may have similar complications as I did. 

[Yourpilotincommand]

I’m also a Mike Bush follower. Why Euthanize a perfectly good engine at TBO? Most engine mortalities happen less than 300 hours. Just keep sending samples to Blackstone and dissecting the oil filter at every oil change… or spend $30k+ just because Lycoming recommends. The FAA doesn’t mandate TBO.

[garytex]

I had an IO-360 A1A done by John Jewel Aviation in Holly springs Arkansas (and be advised there’s another jewel aviation out there that you can look up by accident) that now has about 200 hrs. Used new Lyc Cylinders and new case.  It’s great. 
He is also a good place to go if you want to keep low time cylinders as he has his own cylinder shop. Only one mechanic assembles your engine. Price was very reasonable, great value.

 

[neilpilot]

Neither shop is in Arkansas.

John Jewell is in Holly Springs, MS.    http://www.johnjewellaircraft.com/

Jewell Aviation is in Kennett MO.  https://www.jewellaviation.com/default.htm.  It's run by Sam Jewell & his son David.

Years ago (2001) I had John Jewell do cylinder work on my 64E, and they do have a good reputation.

However, I've had Jewell Aviation in Kennett MO do all but one of my Mooney annuals from 1995 until I sold my Mooney in 2019, including several cylinder rebuilds.  Several of my friends were very happy when after they had Sam & David do engine rebuilds.  While either shop does good work, I'd recommend you consider Jewell Aviation in Kennett MO.

[Ragsf15e]

19 hours ago, Bartman said:

At 1950 hrs with 35hr oil changes and 100/yr flying I thought I would be doing well with a rebuild. All it took was a fretted case beyond repair and a single camshaft lobe and the rebuild became more expensive and if I had know those two details I would have sent my A3B6D in for exchange. 
 

At 2,600 hrs you may have similar complications as I did. 

This one is key to think through.  Case, cam, or crank and you’ll be at least close if not over zero time factory rebuilt.  Also, if you do all the accessories individually, that adds to a “basic” overhaul.  Finally, you can schedule (within reason) a factory motor for delivery and then swap it out instead of sending yours in and sitting for months.  Not saying this is best for everyone, but worth thinking about.