Gee bee baffle seals M20F

[Csteffen]

Hello MS! 
 

Been a long time lurker but this is my first post. The wealth of information and knowledge from everyone on this site is incredible. 
 

The wife and I bought a 67’ F turbo last year and have been absolutely loving flying it but it’s time to start doing some TLC to keep her happy and flying for many more years. 
 

First step is the baffling. I ordered the Gee Bee kit at the strong recommendation of many of you guys on here and so far the quality of the products is excellent. However I’m having a tough time fitting the pilot side of the rear baffle due to the two 90* turns in the baffle and the down slope after towards the corner. 
 

Does anybody have any photos of their M20F with the fully installed gee bee kit with the cowling on and off they could share to help me out? 

Below you can see the issues I’m having.

Thanks in advance! 

[carusoam]

Let’s see if Guy can help you out….  @GEE-BEE AEROPRODUCTS

Best regards,

-a-

[Csteffen]

@carusoam thanks for the reply. Guy has been extremely helpful via email, unfortunately all the examples so far have been of later model’s with the much less intricate baffling without all the bends and curves. 
 

I’ve spent countless hours searching the internet looking for an M20F specific example with no luck. Hoping to find one on here from someone who’s already completed the install with success. 
 

Thanks again! 

[Davidv]

12 minutes ago, Csteffen said:

@carusoam thanks for the reply. Guy has been extremely helpful via email, unfortunately all the examples so far have been of later model’s with the much less intricate baffling without all the bends and curves. 
 

I’ve spent countless hours searching the internet looking for an M20F specific example with no luck. Hoping to find one on here from someone who’s already completed the install with success. 
 

Thanks again! 

I'm not sure if it makes sense or will fix your issue, but 736 red RTV is your friend for closing off any holes that the baffling can't quite get to.  I'm sure Guy will skewer me for saying this :).

[Csteffen]

Haha thanks man, and yes he will. I haven’t had any trouble filling the gaps between the baffle seals as much as I have getting the seals to conform to the underside of the top cowl. The right side rear fit perfectly but the left side, with that weird double 90* bend, just doesn’t want to cooperate. 
 

below is a picture of the right side (copilot side) compared to the left side above in my first post. 
 

 

Edited August 6, 2021 by Csteffen

[Ragsf15e]

Ill try to get a picture of mine.  They aren’t gee bee but similar.  There are a few slits cut in the baffles that allow them to fit better or to slightly overlap in places.  You should be able to get it to a 99% solution, then just see how she cools…

[Csteffen]

53 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ill try to get a picture of mine.  They aren’t gee bee but similar.  There are a few slits cut in the baffles that allow them to fit better or to slightly overlap in places.  You should be able to get it to a 99% solution, then just see how she cools…

Killer, thank you sir! That would be extremely helpful. 

[MikeOH]

I'll try to get a picture of my F tomorrow; I bought my seals from Gee Bee, as well.  My recollection is that the pilot's side longitudinal seal is tucked BEHIND the transverse seal.  Yours looks to be the other way.  Not saying yours is necessarily wrong.

[Csteffen]

47 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

I'll try to get a picture of my F tomorrow; I bought my seals from Gee Bee, as well.  My recollection is that the pilot's side longitudinal seal is tucked BEHIND the transverse seal.  Yours looks to be the other way.  Not saying yours is necessarily wrong.

Interesting, that would be a wild realization. First I’ve seen of that but I could see that being a fix. 
 

I’ll be eagerly waiting the picture. Thank you sir!

[Csteffen]

23 minutes ago, GEE-BEE AEROPRODUCTS said:

If your not replacing oem design with oem copy using new mil spec material you will have a problem .

We die cut from a 50 inch wide sheet

The dies are marked up or down bend of material to aide in the cowl closing.

I have been doing seals for oem and stc holders and shops since 1991

over 465 different patterns 

You can’t make a valve cover gasket , so why try to make a baffle seal from a roll ?

I rest my case .

Although neat information, that doesn’t really help with installation. The picture you posted above of your baffling on an F looks great. It really does. But it does not show the baffling tied together with fasteners and bent over to accept the cowling. 
 

Does the baffle seal need to be pulled down and fastened at the corners? If so, do you have any pictures of the completed install with the fasteners and the baffle seal bent over?

 

Thanks!

[Igor_U]

Guy and Csteffen  

my install is very similar to picture of F model with blue silicone you posted. I used that as go by. I believe issue is seals are better and stiffer (thicker) then stapled black baffles on last picture. Those are OEM?
attaching two seals at the corner with supplied fasteners makes that corner stiff and it wrinkles letting the air pass by as it doesn’t seal well.

I believe it would be better to have seals trimmed to touch and allow to overlap when upper cowl is installed.

however, the aft seals are made short ( as we can see on picture) so there would be some gap if the longitudinal seals are not attached around the corner as your picture suggest.

i am soon to board a Lufthansa flight to SEA and will not be in my hangar ‘till next weekend but please remind me to take some pictures of baffles and seals.

I don’t have double 90 deg bend on LHS but do have oil cooler installed there…

Another issue I see is the F cowl has stiffeners shown on OP’s picture that make seals lose a positive contact with inner cowl surface and allow air to escape through gap.

not sure how to address that if needed, perhaps bonding a rubber profile so seal can  bridge that gap…

 

[MikeOH]

On 8/6/2021 at 9:11 PM, Csteffen said:

Interesting, that would be a wild realization. First I’ve seen of that but I could see that being a fix. 
 

I’ll be eagerly waiting the picture. Thank you sir!

@Csteffen

I took the picture but when I got home it was all black!  Cheesy cell phone; sorry.

Anyway, my memory is bad; the longitudinal seal is on top of the transverse one just like yours.  However, I don't have the gap that you do.  They are both sealed against upper cowl.

[Csteffen]

8 hours ago, Igor_U said:

Guy and Csteffen  

my install is very similar to picture of F model with blue silicone you posted. I used that as go by. I believe issue is seals are better and stiffer (thicker) then stapled black baffles on last picture. Those are OEM?
attaching two seals at the corner with supplied fasteners makes that corner stiff and it wrinkles letting the air pass by as it doesn’t seal well.

I believe it would be better to have seals trimmed to touch and allow to overlap when upper cowl is installed.

however, the aft seals are made short ( as we can see on picture) so there would be some gap if the longitudinal seals are not attached around the corner as your picture suggest.

i am soon to board a Lufthansa flight to SEA and will not be in my hangar ‘till next weekend but please remind me to take some pictures of baffles and seals.

I don’t have double 90 deg bend on LHS but do have oil cooler installed there…

Another issue I see is the F cowl has stiffeners shown on OP’s picture that make seals lose a positive contact with inner cowl surface and allow air to escape through gap.

not sure how to address that if needed, perhaps bonding a rubber profile so seal can  bridge that gap…

 

It’s certainly a weird situation. I suppose I’ll have to keep playing with it to get it to work like it’s supposed to. Thanks for the insight!

[Csteffen]

@MikeOH bummer. Thanks for going to get the picture anyway. I’ve managed to get it to seal quite well if I reach in and push the seal back a little bit but I’m not sure why it wouldn’t seal up by itself. 
 

The other side seals up perfectly and I went through the same installation process on both sides. Anyhow, thanks again for the replies. I’ll keep messing with it and see if I can get it to cooperate. 

[Csteffen]

@MikeOH does your rear baffle seal have a natural forward leaning tendency or did you have to pull it forward and attach it to the side baffle seal?  

[MikeOH]

@Csteffen

I have to be careful when I put the top cowl back on to make sure the aft seal curls forward; sometimes I have to futz with it through the oil door to get it properly positioned.  My aft and LHS seal are NOT attached to each other.  I wonder if that's part of your issue.  Mine are free to slide relative to each other.

[Csteffen]

Ohhh I see, yeah I have to do the same. If I don’t attach the left seal to the rear seal I do have to mess with it to get the cowling to seat properly but then it leaves wrinkles in the back left corner. 
 

However, if that’s the price to pay for better cooling that’s no big deal. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing something. 
 

Thanks again. 

[Ragsf15e]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:59 PM, Csteffen said:

Killer, thank you sir! That would be extremely helpful. 

mine appears to have the gap you’re worried about, but #4 isn’t warm…

[Csteffen]

21 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

mine appears to have the gap you’re worried about, but #4 isn’t warm…

Oh dang ok. Well that’s good to hear you aren’t having trouble with cooling back there. That makes me feel a ton better about it. 
 

To be fair, I never had cooling issues before, even with the old ratty baffle seals. CHT’s we’re consistently in the 330’s and 340’s in cruise ROP. 

This was just preventative while the plane was down for some other stuff. 
 

Thanks again for getting pictures. That takes a huge load off my back. 

[Csteffen]

21 hours ago, GEE-BEE AEROPRODUCTS said:

I can always make a ensolite foam bumper to fill the gap in cowl door

 

We die cut ensolite foam for door hinge seals 

 

GB

 

 

Thanks for the offer but I’d like to keep it with as little modification as necessary at this point. 

[Guest]

10 hours ago, Csteffen said:

Thanks for the offer but I’d like to keep it with as little modification as necessary at this point. 

Why not just take the top cowl off, clean the area where the seal can’t fold into and build it up with some high temp orange RTV or better yet some 1422 PRC.

This Twin Comanche owner is a DER who came up with baffle sealing tapes for his Comanche which suffers from a back baffle which isn’t perfectly straight.

http://www.hdneubert.com/Baffles.html

 

Clarence

[Csteffen]

19 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Why not just take the top cowl off, clean the area where the seal can’t fold into and build it up with some high temp orange RTV or better yet some 1422 PRC.

This Twin Comanche owner is a DER who came up with baffle sealing tapes for his Comanche which suffers from a back baffle which isn’t perfectly straight.

http://www.hdneubert.com/Baffles.html

 

Clarence

Interesting. I’m going to fly it as is for a little bit and see what happens. If CHT’s are fine I probably won’t mess with it but I’ll keep this in mind if not. 
 

Fortunately even with the old torn up baffling my CHT’s were still in the low 300’s in cruise at 75% power so hopefully this setup won’t give me too much trouble. 
 

This whole thing was just preventative since the plane was down for a few other things already. It may be I shouldn’t have tried to fix what wasn’t broken haha. We’ll see. 
 

You know the mechanics motto…”If it isn’t broken, fix it till it is.”  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, GEE-BEE AEROPRODUCTS said:

too thick of material, he used 125

 

On all models of c300-c350-c400 , we used .062

 

I did all of he models for Columbia

seals

ducts

door seals

gaskets

190k per month to the oem for years

All that work with two dislocated shoulders?