Vintage Mooney Rah Rah Rant

[johnggreen]

Rob,

Thank you.  You are forthright and open about both you feelings and your identity.  I think, from your perspective, you make reasonable points and you may be assured I take no offense.

I suspect if we knew one another on a personal basis, you likely would not care for me in that arena either.

I do find it interesting what you and others care to tolerate on this blog as long as it doen't offend your personal sensibilities or positons.  Never offended when the anonymous attack well known shops, dealers or mechanics.  Never offended when 200 hour pilots tell newbies how to handle thunderstorms or icing.  Never offended when M20C owners give advice on flying Ovations or Bravos, but you are offended to find out that I actually have a history of aircraft ownership and pilotage?  I don't mean that as criticism, just observation.

My arrogance "in this forum" probably comes from a general antipathy that I hold for most pilots.  They are complacent, under trained, marginally competent, and over confident.  They kill themselves and innocent people regularly, at a rate several times the accident rate in automobiles.  Nearly 80% of those accidents are a result of pilot error not mechanical failure.  Yet, when they have to go to a bi-annual, most are just looking for someone who will sign them off with a minimum or no instruction. 

This attitude of mine started a long time ago.  When I was in college, I was a member of a two airplane club of about 8 members.  One member, we'll call him Alfie, was a successful business man and cocky as hell about everything he did.  Somehow, Lord only knows how, he got his PPL.  He flew the Skylane intermittently; usually loadeding up himself and three of his cronies, all their gear and went on fishing and hunting trips.  SOP was for the Skylane to leave the ground at least 300# over gross.

Needless to say, he never got an instrument rating, but not once, to my knowledge did he ever cancel a trip.  He flew from Nebraska to Mississippi one time never seeing 1000' AGL below a solid overcast with four on board.

Alfie ran out of gas, completely, three times in that Skylane.  Incredibly, each time he was at the airport boundary, landed safely, and pushed it to the pumps bragging that he had it figured just right.

Let there be a group swapping hangar talk and Alfie was there with the most input and advice.

The funniest thing I remember was him bragging that he had over 5,000 hours logged.  Alfie never owned or flew any airplane but the club's and of the 4 airplanes it owned over the 15 years of its existence, the various members never accumulated over 5,000 hours on the airplanes in total.  How he ended his career not killing himself or someone else, I will never know.

I've seen and heard a lot of Alfies, and if resenting them makes me arrogant, then so be it.  I take it as a compliment when they resent me; not saying you are an Alfie, I don't know you.

So, as I said, as long as you are man enough to sign your name, I'm going to let you speak and not take personal offense.  

Unfortunately, on blogs like this, the knowledgeable pilots often tire and leave.  The Alfies never do.  If you will go back and read some of the threads that go to safety, you will find that there is usually,  an initial  spewing of unfounded bull shit until someone knowledgeable comes on and states the truth. Which usually makes a lot of people mad.  What I do know is that nothing offends a man like the truth; from that you may draw your own conclusions.  

But where you are correct is that it's not worth it.  

Jgreen

[scottfromiowa]

I do find it interesting what you and others care to tolerate on this blog as long as it doen't offend your personal sensibilities or positons.  Never offended when the anonymous attack well known shops, dealers or mechanics.  Never offended when 200 hour pilots tell newbies how to handle thunderstorms or icing.  Never offended when M20C owners give advice on flying Ovations or Bravos, but you are offended to find out that I actually have a history of aircraft ownership and pilotage?  I don't mean that as criticism, just observation.

REALLY?  You were the ONLY voice coming to the defense of the shop?  WRONG.  Many felt it was inappropriate and spoke out to say so.  Observation?  I think not.

My arrogance "in this forum" probably comes from a general antipathy that I hold for most pilots.  They are complacent, under trained, marginally competent, and over confident.  They kill themselves and innocent people regularly, at a rate several times the accident rate in automobiles.  Nearly 80% of those accidents are a result of pilot error not mechanical failure.  Yet, when they have to go to a bi-annual, most are just looking for someone who will sign them off with a minimum or no instruction.

Yes you do hold serious antipathy toward "most" pilots.  Your arrogance is NOT justified based on this or your experience IMO. 

[scottfromiowa]

So, as I said, as long as you are man enough to sign your name, I'm going to let you speak and not take personal offense.

Nice of you to let Rob speak on an open forrum...where opinions right or wrong can and are expressed.  What happens if you are "offended" John?

[scottfromiowa]

But where you are correct is that it's not worth it.

I believe expressing opinions and challenging statements and learning is worth it.

[gregwatts]

Quote: johnggreen

Gentlemen,

And I do mean, "Gentlemen".

Wow... Who is the uninformed twit that you're quoting???

It is I, "the uninformed twit". The one that learned to fly at eleven. Has personally owned and maintained 32 airplanes over the last 40 years; who has managed to not bend any metal in over 6,000 hours of flying, who is proudly a CFII, who has never charged one dollar for instruction time to any pilot who needed his flying skills sharpened or needed to learn the basics of spin training.

That's me!

I have truly enjoyed watching this thread "develop" as I suspected it would after my comments. Yes, Virginia, I was baiting some of you. Frankly, you need it. I didn't say a word that wasn't true, but the next day, I did regret the comment about folks flying Mooneys because they couldn't afford better. I agree with Rob, that was "elitist". For that one, single comment, you have my apology. For the rest of my comments and your responses, thank you. Frankly, you did nothing but make my points valid and raise three more which richly deserve comment.

First of all, I am sorry that the poster who quoted me, did not paste the entire quote. It would have included my personal signature that I try to remember to put on all posts; Jgreen. My name and exact location are on my info and I have included my cell number on several posts.

I have a real problem with blogs like this that they allow anonymous and semi-anonymous postings. In fact, I suspect some of those that appear to be identified are bogus to protect the identity and yellow streak of the member. Like the ubiquitous "comment" sites that are available from all sorts of news outlets, they are worthless and offensive. Allowing a cowardly mole to take snipes at identified people without fear of having to personally account for his/her comments is an insult to what dignity modern life has left in the human experience.

That post that most of you found so offensive came as a result of a member "somewhere in Florida" and others equally as well camouflaged, taking hidden pot shots at a friend of mine, Coy Jacob, of Mooney Mart. I was pissed so I just let off a little steam, BUT BY GOD I DID IT WITH MY SIGNATURE.

So, my point is, identify yourself, at which point you have my full permission to vent any feeling or opinion you want. Otherwise you are a "cowardly twit" to borrow a very descriptive moniker from my friend Ross. Any yes, should we meet in person, you may take you anger out physically if you so choose. I haven't run yet and don't suspect that I will the next time. Oh, I forgot, you don't want to get any shit on your hands do you?

Secondly, there are obviously some very experienced and knowledgeable pilots and owners on this forum. There are also some extremely insecure wannabees who won't ever be. I don't mind reading their dumb ass comments until it comes to aspects of pilotage that impact on safety. Usually, the knowledgeable win out in the give and take, but sometimes one of us "uninformed twits" does have to speak out rather plainly in the interest of truth. I love reading their brilliant uninformed essays and then going to the FAA site and finding out that the guy usually doesn't even have a commercial or instrument ticket.

Finally, while I'm venting my uninformed opinions, I don't think there is anything more shallow than brand loyalty in aviation. You want brand loyalty, go to Beechcraft. Those guys, might actually have something to crow about.

The fact is, there is no ideal or perfect airplane. Airplanes should be chosen based on their capabilities and the balance of their assets and deficits in the profile of the owners intended use. I've owned Beech, Cessna, Piper, Helio, North American ------- I won't bore you. I own the Bravo because it fills my current mission better than any other airplane at similar cost and expense. When that mission changes, I will change airplanes. In the interim, I will not let my fragile ego create a brand loyalty that causes me to overlook the deficits of the aircraft.

My ego, that vision I have of who I am, is thankfully not so fragile that I have to be a groupie at anything. Not political persuasion, auto ownership, aircraft ownership, college or pro football team or anything else.

You want elitism, you want to see my ego? I have three children and one that just showed up at the dinner table one night (my youngest sons best friend). Between them they have 4 BA's, 2 graduate degrees, 4 law degrees, an MBA, and a graduate LLM in tax law. The best friend I sent to Wake Forrest Law and he now practices in Asheville.

That's my ego; not a damn airplane.

So, thanks again. Threads like this do a lot for my fragile ego, or as Mac Davis so eloquently sang, "Oh Lord, it's hard to be humble".

Jgreen

[PilotDerek]

Quote: gregwatts

Dude....you got issues!

Greg Watts

N1008L

Jupiter Florida

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: nosky2high

Alcon,

Some of you remind me of the worst leaders I ever had. Those that focused so hard on always being right vs. focusing on what's right. In my line of work, the best leaders, soldiers, and aviators understand that there are no hard and fast rules for every situation, hence the term Operational Art. My friendly recommendation is for all of us to focus the conversation on the concept or issue. Things are more productive that way instead of digressing into talking about the people/persons.

Regardless of all the nonsense, I've gained further information and perspective from all of you. For that I am grateful. I will process and filter the information to see what can be of assistance to my family's unique Mooney situation. Our profile is East of the Rockies, South of the Mason Dixon line, 500nm longest leg, 20-30% night flying, 3%IMC, small sized 4-person family flying 150hours/year.

For everyone on this forum, feel free to call me anytime cell (334)379-3742, if you want to talk airplane ownership and personal IFR single pilot family flying from a normal income non-CFI regular guy perspective(1150hrs SEL, 250hrs night, 850hrs X-C, 130hrs IMC). Full disclosure, after I was already a civilian private pilot/owner, the Army selected me to transfer into Army Aviation so I’m a Commercial Rotary pilot as well with 950hrs in the OH58D(550hrs combat). If you're ever in the Ft. Rucker, Southeast Alabama area; feel free to stop by the Enterprise Airport (KEDN) for lunch.

Keep the good advice coming, I appreciate this forum a great deal.

Blue Skies,

Anthony

[jetdriven]

Well, I'd for one rather have a spirited debate and discuss all sides of the issues than sit around back slapping each other and telling ourselves how right we are, and how everyone else is stupid for not owning a Mooney, or agreeing with you on everything. Even as we discuss landing on a highway with ample fields around, going "just a bit overgross",  making 6 turns and 9 radio calls to land at an uncontrolled pattern entry, running 12 GPH in a 201 to "be nice, because fuel is cheaper than engines", climb at 25 square, ove the fence at 90 KIAS, and all the the bullshit group think that people tend to believe if not challenged. 

 

 

[gregwatts]

Quote: jetdriven

Well, I'd for one rather have a spirited debate and discuss all sides of the issues than sit around back slapping each other and telling ourselves how right we are, and how everyone else is stupid for not owning a Mooney, or agreeing with you on everything. Even as we discuss landing on a highway with ample fields around, going "just a bit overgross", making 6 turns and 9 radio calls to land at an uncontrolled pattern entry, running 12 GPH in a 201 to "be nice, because fuel is cheaper than engines", climb at 25 square, ove the fence at 90 KIAS, and all the the bullshit group think that people tend to believe if not challenged.

Yes I can be that prick of a contrarian myself, but after a few type ratings and all kinds of flying perhaps I have earned it. After damn near 9,000 hours of flying, the only damage I have to show for is blowing out a tire on a B55 Baron teaching a French fighter pilot how to do short field landings.

 

[carusoam]

In the unfortunate event you got too much rah-rah.....

"Our online community is dedicated to those who own, fly or just simply love Mooney aircraft."

Apparently everyone is invited.  Just for simply loving Mooney aircraft, for at least a moment.

No minimum number of hours or certification required.  The cost of being here is wading through the unwanted to get to the important nuggets.  Who would want to do this unless you had a special interest in Mooneys?

Send me an email, I will share my contact information.  My email is in my profile.

I have read every post since the beginning.  Some are painful most are imperfect.  In the end, It's better than going it alone.

Maybe we should consider its not what we say, as much as how we say it?

Forgiveness is good too. Most of us make mistakes.

I am looking forward to meeting as many Mooney people as practical.  Why not?

Best regards and rah-rah,

-a-

[bnicolette]

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[Antoni Deighton]

I am a Commercial, Multi, Instrument pilot, currently working on my Comm rotary rating. I have  flown airplanes from J3 Cubs and DH Tiger Moths to Aero L-29 jets. I have learned from experienced ATP's and pilots with just a PPL. The day I stop learning will be the day I stop flying.

I thought the days of Captains telling FOs to put up and shut up had been completely replaced by training in CRM, but apparently that doesn't seem to apply to some members of the bar. I'm sorry, but that kind of dangerous attitude doesn't belong in aviation. 

Antoni

ad8n@gte.net

[Sven]

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