$1000 "climate" regulated landing fees in Massachusetts?

[Urs_Wildermuth]

Hi all,

 

read that someplace. Sounds pretty darn scary for anyone based there? Does anyone have more information on this madness?

Massachusetts Senate, bill no 2305. An Act to mitigate the climate impact of private and corporate air travel.

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/192/S2305.Html

Section 51O. An airport commission governing a municipal or county owned airport or the board of directors of the Massachusetts port authority shall assess a climate impact landing fee of not less than one thousand dollars on personal aircraft, corporate owned aircraft and charter rental aircraft each time that any such an aircraft is to
land at an airport in the commonwealth.

 

[Guest]

I hope they’re prepared the do similar for personal watercraft, boats, ATC and the like.  Just to be fair and spread the joy.

Clarence

[Gubni]

I'm sure it's a Democrat run city. Probably within a month all traffic at that airport will cease and shortly thereafter all hangers will be vacant.

[Tim Jodice]

He is clearly going after affluent people. Does he consider the local economy? people that live/visit Nantucket and Martha's Vinyard aren't exactly living on a welfare check and food stamps. It likely wouldn't stop the very wealthy but people with less than a G650 might think twice before going there for fun. I would.

I am hoping that he was smoking crack when he wrote it and it gets thrown out by someone who looks at the big picture. 

[Tim Jodice]

Where does it say $1,000?

[EricJ]

Remember the adage, "One should not see how laws or sausages are made."    This is just a proposal that hasn't even made it out of the state transportation committee yet, where I suspect it might just die outright.   It may just be intended as a bargaining chip for other political horse trading, who knows.

If one wants their panties to be in a continual bunch, just continue to read all of the bill proposals that get submitted.   Or, to keep one's blood pressure at normal levels, don't bother until they at least get out of their respective committees, or, better yet, until they've passed at least the first relevant house or senate vote.   This one may not ever emerge, or may emerge in a non-recognizable form.    I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

[DXB]

5 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Remember the adage, "One should not see how laws or sausages are made."    This is just a proposal that hasn't even made it out of the state transportation committee yet, where I suspect it might just die outright.   It may just be intended as a bargaining chip for other political horse trading, who knows.

If one wants their panties to be in a continual bunch, just continue to read all of the bill proposals that get submitted.   Or, to keep one's blood pressure at normal levels, don't bother until they at least get out of their respective committees, or, better yet, until they've passed at least the first relevant house or senate vote.   This one may not ever emerge, or may emerge in a non-recognizable form.    I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

You're absolutely right -  at any given time there are many bills in state legislatures across the country in the early stages that are equally bonkers.   I imagine AOPA keeps close tabs on stuff like this. More informative might be the number of bills introduced nationwide focused on taxing GA at a given moment - a canary in the coal mine for what lies ahead.  

But I do suspect GA will continue to grow more vulnerable to taxing and regulation in the years to come.

Edited May 7, 2021 by DXB

[201er]

7 minutes ago, EricJ said:

 This one may not ever emerge, or may emerge in a non-recognizable form.    I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

 

I think they start by asking for $1000 per landing and then settle for a $0.27 landing fee increase for aircraft like a Mooney.

 

[Mark89114]

This is the problem, that the legislators are so stupid that they even consider this idea or dozens of others as "good" ideas.  Our leadership in this country is stupid,  all the way down to the local level, red and blue.

[A64Pilot]

Is it just me, but does anyone else fail to see how fees affect the climate?

[OSUAV8TER]

It's one representative with no one signing onto it. This is dead before arrival. 

[N201MKTurbo]

3 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Is it just me, but does anyone else fail to see how fees affect the climate?

Well, the fees will totally devastate the economy of MA. Nobody will be working and they won’t be able to afford to drive their cars or pay their electric bills, so the consumption of fossil fuel will go to zero and Massachusetts will have a very small carbon footprint. 
 

Ever since the first discovery of fossil fuels, the global economy has been directly tied to the consumption of fossil fuel. It can be debated all day weather fossil fuel consumption drives the economy or the economy drives the consumption of fossil fuels. In the current paradigm the only way to reduce the consumption of fossil fuels is to reduce the economy. 
 

I would love to hear of ways to decouple the economy from fossil fuels, but all I hear is government mandates to reduce the consumption of fossil fuels, which will devastate the economy.
 

BTW A64pilot, I’m not raging against you, I’m just piggybacking on your post.

[RLCarter]

53 minutes ago, Mark89114 said:

This is the problem, that the legislators are so stupid that they even consider this idea or dozens of others as "good" ideas.  Our leadership in this country is stupid,  all the way down to the local level, red and blue.

Yep, head full of ideas and shit for brains 

[A64Pilot]

29 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

 

BTW A64pilot, I’m not raging against you, I’m just piggybacking on your post.

I understand, it’s the hypocrisy of it all that irritates me, Al Gore is a Climate hero, even though he lives in a huge house, with a monster electric bill, flies around in private jets and consumes more fossil fuels in a month than I do in a year. 

‘But it’s all OK. see he’s carbon free, because he buys carbon credits from companies that he owns that sell such things, Makes him rich I’m sure, where does all his money come from?

Ever wonder what a “carbon Credit” is and how paying money absolves you of the sin of excess consumption? 

Why is it considered argumentative to ask how would a $1,000 landing fee help fight climate change?

I’m waiting for the carbon tax that I know is coming, and that will I’m sure make some very rich, but how will it fight climate change?

I really feel sure that if the friends of the Earth get the ear of the ones in charge now, we can kiss 100LL good bye. My only hope is we fly under the radar, and don’t get noticed.

Edited May 7, 2021 by A64Pilot

[carusoam]

gents, it’s a non-election year...

politics and Mooney flying don’t mix...

Too stressful... too distracting...

Too sad...

 

Proof...
 

Massachusetts was once a great center for technology...

Kind of like the Silicon Valley...

Giant tech companies were planted as seeds, from the many universities in the Boston area.... and fostered and grown over the years...

The bigger the companies got, the further they moved from Boston... absorbing all the college graduates they could hire...

Rt 128 is a highway that runs an arc running from North of Boston, west, and comes back to ocean south of Boston...

128 was even nicknamed... America’s Technology Highway... they posted big signs for everyone to see... Honeywell and Bose had their presence there.... 

 

Massachusetts felt so confident they could tax the companies that were growing like wildfire.... as if they could never leave... why would they want to leave..?

 

The boastful signs on 128 faded miserably for decades...  the big corporate signs all disappeared.... 

Companies and people left in droves....

They were leaving the state of Taxachusetts....

 

Guess they couldn’t see that coming...

Pride is a horrible thing...  it gets in the way of logic...

They didn’t vote for the Democratic Party....   they voted for anyone named Kennedy... or was married to a Kennedy... or was a cousin of a Kennedy...

The Kennedy’s were wealthy.... they lived in a compound in Hyannis...  When JFK was elected into office...  the word Camelot was used to describe their lifestyle...   (who makes this stuff up and why?)

So... If anyone wants to study politics...  recognize that elections can be a giant popularity contest...  that is often swayed with the power of advertising...more money spent on getting the proper advertising... bingo, Winner!

Some really intelligent people go into politics to lead... they often get there after they have made tons of their own money...

Some just want to win the popularity contest... and will stoop to amazing lows to do so...   blame the rich 1%ers seems to be a popular thing to do in MA.

 

The Kennedy Clan was a study of how far can you go and not get caught...  started with the lesser known Kennedy... Black Jack Joe Kennedy who became a senator... about 100 years ago...  

Pass the baton to your kids... Jack, Robert, and Ted...

Have them take on a small leadership roll and make a big deal out of it...  unfortunately for most people that go this direction...  death, misery, and jail sentences follow close behind...

The people of MA don’t deserve this type of leadership...

Tell them to use their heads, avoid going on a feeling....

That one guy that was around forever... was so drunk when he drove off the road... he didn’t know what happened... essentially killing his friend.... today, drinking and driving and killing somebody don’t get you elected into office...

The world doesn’t need this kind of leadership...

Some political jobs are really hard... totally time consuming... drugs and alcohol don’t make the job any easier or any better...

 

In the words of my Freshman English Teacher...  when it comes to politics...   Vote out the incumbents...  

See, told ya flying and politics don’t mix...   

Have you seen the amount of people leaving out of California lately?

When you leave from MA... it’s not a big deal... Winter is horrible there... they spend their entire lives saving money to retire in FL...

If you leave CA because of taxes... that is saying something...

 

This is the thoughts of a frustrated PP... Politics is a necessity... It takes up about a day every other year or so... if you spend more than a day thinking and voting.... time is getting away....

Vote no on politics and political discussions...

About me... grew up in MA... saw the nuttiness first hand...  NJ looked like it had better opportunities... so I went there... some day I’ll return...   

Best regards,

-a-

[JT]

State Senator Cyr represents Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket islands. Do you suppose he paddles a low carbon canoe over when he is visiting his constituents? Oh, wait, he doesn't propose to impose the landing fees on government aircraft....

[kerry]

Huh, I wonder if they'll waive the fee if you land with your glider.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I understand, it’s the hypocrisy of it all that irritates me, Al Gore is a Climate hero, even though he lives in a huge house, with a monster electric bill, flies around in private jets and consumes more fossil fuels in a month than I do in a year. 

‘But it’s all OK. see he’s carbon free, because he buys carbon credits from companies that he owns that sell such things, Makes him rich I’m sure, where does all his money come from?

Ever wonder what a “carbon Credit” is and how paying money absolves you of the sin of excess consumption? 

Why is it considered argumentative to ask how would a $1,000 landing fee help fight climate change?

I’m waiting for the carbon tax that I know is coming, and that will I’m sure make some very rich, but how will it fight climate change?

I really feel sure that if the friends of the Earth get the ear of the ones in charge now, we can kiss 100LL good bye. My only hope is we fly under the radar, and don’t get noticed.

As soon as anybody mentions carbon credits, I immediately know they are a liter and a cheat. You cut your carbon footprint by reducing your usage, not spending your money. They expect someone else to suffer so they can feel good about their selves without sacrificing anything except some of their excess cash.

[Urs_Wildermuth]

Well, I did not want to start a politics battle, as a foreigner who came across this thing in another aviation forum I simply wanted to know what it is.

So if i get it right, it is the proposal of one State Senator who represents Nantucket and Marthas Vineyard who came up with this and nobody else has supported it so far. Therefore it will likely be shot down by the state senate before it ever gets dangerous.

Well, let's hope so.

It's quite interesting to see that a Senator representing islands would do this, it would truely kill all the airports on these islands and most probably drive quite a few of it's  inhabitants out of his constituency. Is there a more effective way of political suicide?

 

[GeeBee]

3 hours ago, Urs_Wildermuth said:

Well, I did not want to start a politics battle, as a foreigner who came across this thing in another aviation forum I simply wanted to know what it is.

So if i get it right, it is the proposal of one State Senator who represents Nantucket and Marthas Vineyard who came up with this and nobody else has supported it so far. Therefore it will likely be shot down by the state senate before it ever gets dangerous.

Well, let's hope so.

It's quite interesting to see that a Senator representing islands would do this, it would truely kill all the airports on these islands and most probably drive quite a few of it's  inhabitants out of his constituency. Is there a more effective way of political suicide?

 

Hmmm, well I suspect the elites on these islands would not mind if the tourist and the "riff-raff" left. If the working folks of Nantucket and Marthas Vineyard left the elites could have their own little enclave, serviced by their yachts and more space for their Gulfstreams at what remains of the airports.  A thousand bucks is nothing when you operate a Gulfstream.  Even better,  you could buy up all those little houses to expand your compound. Sounds like he is serving his donors quite well.

[Tim Jodice]

24 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Hmmm, well I suspect the elites on these islands would not mind if the tourist and the "riff-raff" left. If the working folks of Nantucket and Marthas Vineyard left the elites could have their own little enclave, serviced by their yachts and more space for their Gulfstreams at what remains of the airports.  A thousand bucks is nothing when you operate a Gulfstream.  Even better,  you could buy up all those little houses to expand your compound. Sounds like he is serving his donors quite well.

The elite would be pissed. It is hard enough as it is to get working people there FOR the elite. Get rid of them who is going to cater to the elite?

[GeeBee]

They just have to fly Jeeves in with the Gulfstream. Maria from Guatemala can live out back in the pool equipment room.

I've flown for a lot of rich people.

 

[aviatoreb]

I wouldn't get too worked up over this. Its just a PR proposal for the rep to get some pats on the back for appearing green and no one expects it to go anywhere. I am convinced that politicians pitch straw man proposals all the time as PR management.

[Mark89114]

Their is a book recently released called "The Politics Industry" by Katherine Gehl and Michael Porter (of business school fame) that highlights the non functioning and special interests of both parties D and R.  The game is rigged in their favor, it made my blood boil.  It is a relatively easy read.  I would recommend it so you can make your own opinions.  I had a client ask me if I was a D or R and I told him neither, I am a conservative.  Pragmatic conservative at that.  

Until the political process is corrected we are going to go down the path we are going down.  Trying not to state my opinions here.  

Although the other thought process someone said is "the USA is the only ponzi scheme that works"....I guess until it doesn't.

 

[Yetti]

13 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

I understand, it’s the hypocrisy of it all that irritates me, Al Gore is a Climate hero, even though he lives in a huge house, with a monster electric bill, flies around in private jets and consumes more fossil fuels in a month than I do in a year. 

‘But it’s all OK. see he’s carbon free, because he buys carbon credits from companies that he owns that sell such things, Makes him rich I’m sure, where does all his money come from?

Ever wonder what a “carbon Credit” is and how paying money absolves you of the sin of excess consumption? 

Why is it considered argumentative to ask how would a $1,000 landing fee help fight climate change?

I’m waiting for the carbon tax that I know is coming, and that will I’m sure make some very rich, but how will it fight climate change?

I really feel sure that if the friends of the Earth get the ear of the ones in charge now, we can kiss 100LL good bye. My only hope is we fly under the radar, and don’t get noticed.

because Gore-Tex.   GORE-TEX is made from expanded polytetrafluoroethylene (or ePTFE      You know that stuff that is made from petroleum.   https://financialpost.com/news/how-al-gore-amassed-a-200-million-fortune-after-presidential-defeat