Fatal accident of 11 18

[Steve65E-NC]

This news article seems to have been lost in an earlier discussion of a Mooney boarderline incident at a nearby field.  The photo is frightning and I would like to know more about this one and what went wrong.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Plane-Crash-Brackett-Field-Airport-134146438.html

 

 

[Parker_Woodruff]

Looks like a regularly flown Bravo according to flightaware records. 

 

Too sad. 

[johnggreen]

Is it just me, or is there a significant difference in the number of comments when there is a Mooney accident where the occupants survive and when, like this, it is fatal?

Seriously, let the pilot walk away and all you hear (see posted) is raves about the safety of Mooneys, they don't need parachutes, the tube frame structure saved the pilot, blah, blah, blah.  Nobody want to talk about an unfortunate accident like this where the poor guy is now a statistic.

Of all the aspects of flying that deserve objective, moderated, attention and comments, accidents are number one.  About three quarters of accidents come from pilot error.  Another signigicant percentage comes from mechanical failure due to poor maintenance or pre-flight (i.e.pilot error).

Statistics don't indicate that Mooneys are the airplane of choice if safety is your main concern; not opinion, fact.  

No, I won't look it up for you, I'm nobody's librarian.  Look it up yourself, it won't be hard to find.

This blog can be informative.  It can be helpful.  it can promote safety.

Mostly it just promotes the silliness of brand loyalty.

[sleepingsquirrel]

Quote: johnggreen

  

No, I won't look it up for you, I'm nobody's librarian.  Look it up yourself, it won't be hard to find.

This blog can be informative.  It can be helpful.  it can promote safety.

Mostly it just promotes the silliness of brand loyalty.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: johnggreen

 

No, I won't look it up for you, I'm nobody's librarian.  Look it up yourself, it won't be hard to find.

This blog can be informative.  It can be helpful.  it can promote safety.

Mostly it just promotes the silliness of brand loyalty.

[johnggreen]

And I made no reference to the crash other than it resulted in a fatality.  "respect for the dead" ?  What does that have to do with the point of my comment?  To put me on the defensive?  You'll have to do better than that.

So all this wild speculation (see posts on Cleveland accident) makes sense when no one is killed, but not when there is a fatality?

I'm about the only one that did not speculate in either case.

jgreen

[sleepingsquirrel]

Could you post a link to the Cleveland accident?

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: johnggreen

Is it just me, or is there a significant difference in the number of comments when there is a Mooney accident where the occupants survive and when, like this, it is fatal?

Seriously, let the pilot walk away and all you hear (see posted) is raves about the safety of Mooneys, they don't need parachutes, the tube frame structure saved the pilot, blah, blah, blah.  Nobody want to talk about an unfortunate accident like this where the poor guy is now a statistic.

Of all the aspects of flying that deserve objective, moderated, attention and comments, accidents are number one.  About three quarters of accidents come from pilot error.  Another signigicant percentage comes from mechanical failure due to poor maintenance or pre-flight (i.e.pilot error).

Statistics don't indicate that Mooneys are the airplane of choice if safety is your main concern; not opinion, fact.  

No, I won't look it up for you, I'm nobody's librarian.  Look it up yourself, it won't be hard to find.

This blog can be informative.  It can be helpful.  it can promote safety.

Mostly it just promotes the silliness of brand loyalty.

[Parker_Woodruff]

If I'm going to be in an accident, I want to be in an M20. You say you won't be my librarian, so I'll just take a guess that you're referring to a DA-40 or similar as far as safety record. 

 

I prefer to achieve speed in a traveling airframe and a DA-40 or whatever you're suggesting isn't the answer.  If I want to fly slow, I'll take a Seaplane or a Super Decathlon or similar. 

[ChrisH]

My thoughts go out to the family. 

That said, I was curious as to the safety of Mooney (fact not opinion), so took the accident records (05-09) and did some analysis. I looked simply at the total number of accidents in the log, and what % of those accidents resulted in a fatality. 

Across the board, 9.43% of all acidents had a fatality (all types/all operations). For our Mooneys, there are differences between models, M20J's had 101 records, 6 had fatalities, 5.94%. M20k's 3/61 4.92%. Across all Mooneys, 27/433 (6.24%) records had fatalities so better than average.

For comparision, 

SR20 6/41 14.63%

SR22 28/106 26.42%

172(all variants including RG) 128/1017  12.95% But, here's the rub. Some C172's show very good (172P 3/95 3.16%)

 

Net, I don't know that there's any statistical validity to the data at all looking through it, and I'm not really sure how you make the data say one aircraft is 'safer' than any other. 

[DaV8or]

Quote: johnggreen

And I made no reference to the crash other than it resulted in a fatality.  "respect for the dead" ?  What does that have to do with the point of my comment?  To put me on the defensive?

[eldeano]

Well in my humble opinion, some accidents lend themselves to speculation more then others.  Also when there is a fatality, out of respect you are less likely to try and find fault with what the pilot may have done wrong.

 

My prayers go out to the family of the accident victim.

 

I also find a lot of the information here invaluable, especially to a relatively new Mooney owner such as myself.  I can draw on the experience of others on the site, and help keep myself safe. Knowledge is power.

[KSMooniac]

No need for any of us to go digging through accident statistics to debate such a topic.  All you need to know can be surmised by looking at insurance premiums for various planes using the same theoretical pilot.  The insurance companies have staffs of actuaries to comb through the data and calculate risk, and thus price an insurance policy.  I believe in the single engine XC class of airplane, you'll find that Mooneys cost less to insure than any other plane in the class, assuming equivalent hull value.

[N9453V]

The AOPA Air Safety Foundation did a study in 1995 comparing the Mooney to other single-engine RG aircraft and the results showed a slightly better accident rate of 6 accidents per 100 registered aircraft, verses 7.7 for the rest of the group. Granted this does not include the DA40 and SR22, but it seemed interesting nontheless.

A link to the study is here: http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/sp9510.html

-Andrew

[PTK]

We can recite statistics and spin numbers all day long. At the end of the day though, they are meaningless in the sense that they only apply to a population and not to the ill-fated individual. Let the unfortunate soul rest in peace. 

My thoughts and prayers are with the family of this fellow pilot.

[Steve65E-NC]

All this theory is fine.  But, I am still waiting for some news or information on how the poor shmuck screwed up and how this shmuck (me) can avoid a similar fate.  The photo gives few clues.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: KSMooniac

No need for any of us to go digging through accident statistics to debate such a topic.  All you need to know can be surmised by looking at insurance premiums for various planes using the same theoretical pilot.  The insurance companies have staffs of actuaries to comb through the data and calculate risk, and thus price an insurance policy.  I believe in the single engine XC class of airplane, you'll find that Mooneys cost less to insure than any other plane in the class, assuming equivalent hull value.

[scottfromiowa]

http://www.mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?page=1&mainaction=posts&forumid=1&threadid=3125

Link to previous "Crash" discussion.  JG referenced crash...

-Pilot is gone.  Family may or may not refer to this site...discretion (not calling him/her out or a shmuck etc...) when there is Minimal causitive information out seems prudent.

-THAT SAID I very much WANT to learn the fundamental and contributing causation of aviation incidents with PARTICULAR attention to Mooney's to learn from the error(s) in an effort to NOT repeat them.

-Guessing is just that.

By the way don't you just love your Mooney?  Aren't Mooney's the best airplane ever?  Don't you wish everyone had such a great plane?  I sure do LOVE my Mooney....and everyone else that fly them because well they are just better, no make that BEST.  By best I mean safest, cleanest, sexiest, best smelling, best tasting smartest airframe ever.  Why do they even make other planes when there are Mooney's?

[jlunseth]

I like your enthusiasm Scott, but I like that ASF article even better.  I don't think I can say that mine is cleaner or smells better.  For better or worse, it is a working aircraft and is sometimes ridden hard and put away wet.  But so far it has forgiven my many trespasses and has never, never failed to get me there.  That is the part I like best about it.

I have had two people close to me die in crashes.  When I took my PP, and for a couple of years after, I would come home, my kids would ask "How did it go?" and I would reply, "Didn't die."  They thought that was strange, but it was a reminder to myself that it is certainly possible, and better men than me have done it.  Since I have gotten some time in the Mooney, I notice I don't say that anymore.  Just a self-observation.  Not like there haven't been some adventures along the way, just that the plane has been up to all of them.

[scottfromiowa]

Quote: jlunseth

I like your enthusiasm Scott, but I like that ASF article even better.  I don't think I can say that mine is cleaner or smells better.  For better or worse, it is a working aircraft and is sometimes ridden hard and put away wet.  But so far it has forgiven my many trespasses and has never, never failed to get me there.  That is the part I like best about it.

I have had two people close to me die in crashes.  When I took my PP, and for a couple of years after, I would come home, my kids would ask "How did it go?" and I would reply, "Didn't die."  They thought that was strange, but it was a reminder to myself that it is certainly possible, and better men than me have done it.  Since I have gotten some the Mooney, I notice I don't say that anymore.  Just a self-observation.  Not like there haven't been some adventures along the way, just that the plane has been up to all of them.

[jetdriven]

Quote: scottfromiowa

By the way don't you just love your Mooney?  Aren't Mooney's the best airplane ever?  Don't you wish everyone had such a great plane?  I sure do LOVE my Mooney....and everyone else that fly them because well they are just better, no make that BEST.  By best I mean safest, cleanest, sexiest, best smelling, best tasting smartest airframe ever.  Why do they even make other planes when there are Mooney's?

[jlunseth]

Quote: scottfromiowa