azwildcat Posted March 20, 2021 Report Posted March 20, 2021 Wondering which M20's have the johnson bar in them? Seems like a cost-effective option....I've read some that the landing gear breaks on these. Is this a known issue on M20's? Thanks for any info in advance! Quote
Raptor05121 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Posted March 20, 2021 It was standard from 1962-1968. Electric gear was optional but after 68 they switched to electric. Its pretty robust. IIRC its the only certified gear system that the FAA didn't require a backup emergency extension system. The weak points are lack of proper maintenance. 3 Quote
201er Posted March 20, 2021 Report Posted March 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said: It was standard from 1962-1968. Electric gear was optional but after 68 they switched to electric. Its pretty robust. IIRC its the only certified gear system that the FAA didn't require a backup emergency extension system. The weak points are lack of proper maintenance. Huh? What did they have before 1962? Quote
Raptor05121 Posted March 20, 2021 Report Posted March 20, 2021 Replace 1962 with whatever year The M20 came out. Quote
Yariv Posted March 21, 2021 Report Posted March 21, 2021 I had a 1964 M20E for 10 years and never had any problem with the landing gear. Your right arm may become longer though:-) Quote
carusoam Posted March 21, 2021 Report Posted March 21, 2021 Welcome aboard AZW! How would you like yours to come? I preferred the all manual version... Now, I like the fully powered version... Both are great... Neither one wears out at a rate to be annoying... The systems are not the part that fails most often... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- Quote
azwildcat Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Posted March 24, 2021 Thank you for the responses. I'm most interested in the manual gear (Johnson Bar) for reliability and maintenance costs. I was considering the Cessna Cardinal, but after seeing some disturbing landing videos, I think I'll pass on the cardinal. Someone mentioned the FAA requiring a backup landing system....is this standard, e.g. a manual landing gear if your electric fails? I'm a new pilot and this will be my first plane, so any transferred knowledge is much appreciated. Quote
azwildcat Posted March 24, 2021 Author Report Posted March 24, 2021 On 3/20/2021 at 7:14 PM, carusoam said: Welcome aboard AZW! How would you like yours to come? I preferred the all manual version... Now, I like the fully powered version... Both are great... Neither one wears out at a rate to be annoying... The systems are not the part that fails most often... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a- What fails the most on a Mooney? I've read numerous articles about fuel leaks.... Quote
cliffy Posted March 24, 2021 Report Posted March 24, 2021 All electric or hydraulic driven landing gear have some sort of mechanical backup system to put the gear down in case the primary system doesn't work. The backup system usually does not allow the gear to be retracted again once used to put it down. Mooneys, Cessnas to 747s they all are the same in this respect. Mooney manual gear is unique in that because it is linked directly and hard mounted to the gear retraction system (much like any backup extension system would be in an electric gear system) it needs no backup. Safe simple provided proper maintenance has been performed. The biggest problem with any retractable gear system is proper maintenance over the years. Beech, Cessna, Piper, Mooney they're all the same in this regard. some take more maintenance than others but they all work if properly maintained. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted March 24, 2021 Report Posted March 24, 2021 5 hours ago, azwildcat said: What fails the most on a Mooney? I've read numerous articles about fuel leaks.... Unfortunately, the biggest failure is the nut behind the yoke... When it comes to accidents... They are independent of the plane... Avoid the following... 1) Don’t fly VFR into IMC... be trained enough to successfully perform a U-turn in IMC using instruments... 2) Don’t run out of gas... FF instruments, totalizers, and decent fuel gauges have really helped with this... throw in fuel management, oil management, and O2 system management... we have lost a few planes this way... For advanced flyers... we move up the scale... 3) Avoid flying into icing conditions... 4) Avoid flying into thunderstorms... Again, we have a lot of technology on our side... and, we still need to use it... As far as finding a list of what can go wrong with a Mooney... there isn’t anything Mooney specific... all airplanes are subject to expensive age/ weather / maintenance / random events... People use a pre-purchase inspection to look at the expensive to fix parts of the plane first... to make sure they don’t accidentally buy somebody else’s problem... A Mooney specific mechanic knows every inspection panel...and where to look, and what it should look like... All corrosion can be repaired, but at what cost... part replacement can be expensive and take time... Fuel tank leaks are pretty easy to identify... there was particular years that the sealant used wasn’t very good... most of those tanks have been resealed since those problems occurred... the sealant was falling off... any private pilot could recognize the problem... no mechanic required... When it comes to buying an airplane... they are a complex purchase... more complex than a car... probably similar to a house... Most often, the first review is enough to tell if it’s worth reading the log books... Once the books are read, decide on if it’s good enough to have inspected... Inspect only something you intend to buy... it gets silly expensive to inspect planes that fail the inspection... Buying a plane is similar to gambling... it takes a lot of work to not make costly mistakes... Sometimes you can put in very little effort, and just get lucky... Some machines are fun to buy... others can be a lot of extra work... It all depends on the individual machine you are buying... Its not new, and it doesn’t come with a warranty... The good part... as you get through the annual a year from now... that’s when you realize how well you plan has worked... It is worth it... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
midlifeflyer Posted March 24, 2021 Report Posted March 24, 2021 5 hours ago, azwildcat said: Thank you for the responses. I'm most interested in the manual gear (Johnson Bar) for reliability and maintenance costs. I was considering the Cessna Cardinal, but after seeing some disturbing landing videos, I think I'll pass on the cardinal. Someone mentioned the FAA requiring a backup landing system....is this standard, e.g. a manual landing gear if your electric fails? I'm a new pilot and this will be my first plane, so any transferred knowledge is much appreciated. Yes. Manual backups to electric landing gear systems are standard. They can be very different in different types aircraft but they have in thing in common. They replace the automated process of moving the gear with a manual process of some kind. It might be a hand pump in case a hydraulic pump fails. It might be a crank to manually extend the gear. Might even be manually releasing the hydraulic pressure keeping the gear up so it can free-fall. The Johnson bar Mooney doesn't have one since it is already manual. The only failures are those which would make even the backup systems in others fail. Quote
Chocks Posted March 25, 2021 Report Posted March 25, 2021 14 hours ago, carusoam said: "...the biggest failure is the nut behind the yoke..." I feel like I want this on a shirt or a bumper sticker slapped hap-hazardly on the vertical stab. 2 Quote
Seth Posted March 25, 2021 Report Posted March 25, 2021 M20A, B, C, D, E, F. Not sure if the G had a Johnson bar or not. I owned a 1967 M20F for three years and loved the Johnson bar. Even used it after shoulder surgery and was fine. During my maintenance run on it I replaced a bungee which made it run even smoother. After I sold it to a friend who owned it for a 8 years or so he replaced the block. The block can become worn over time (where it locks into the panel). It's a great system. It's up or it's down. It should be easy to operate. If it takes excessive strength, positioning, whatever and it's not an easy fluid motion, take it to a shop to get worked on. -Seth Quote
orionflt Posted March 25, 2021 Report Posted March 25, 2021 Actually the D did not have a Johnson bar, at least not till the owners converted most of them to retractable gear. 1 1 3 Quote
carusoam Posted March 25, 2021 Report Posted March 25, 2021 Today’s technicality award goes to... Brian! The M20D Master’s gear were bolted in the down position... No J-bar was going to move them... The M20G got the J-bar because it was an M20F with a C’s engine... an economics decision for the owner... PP thoughts only, i didn’t check how many Gs were produced with a J-bar... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
cliffy Posted March 25, 2021 Report Posted March 25, 2021 52 minutes ago, carusoam said: Today’s technicality award goes to... Brian! The M20D Master’s gear were bolted in the down position... No J-bar was going to move them... The M20G got the J-bar because it was an M20F with a C’s engine... an economics decision for the owner... PP thoughts only, i didn’t check how many Gs were produced with a J-bar... Best regards, -a- Or how many Gs are developed when a new owner pulls it up the first time!!! :-) :-) 1 Quote
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