Mooney pilots who glide

[Ibra]

6 hours ago, carusoam said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MDM_MDM-1_Fox
 

That's a beast for aerobatics,
Me (trying to be smart): I have checked AFM/POH for G-limits blabla...
CFI: don't worry too much about those, your neck will break first 

It was this one but daylight and no pyrotechnics 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by Ibra

[steingar]

16 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Do these gliders count. This is 10,000 ft and climbing.

One of these days I'm going to take a long vacation to somewhere with rocks and I'm going to learn to do that.

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, steingar said:

One of these days I'm going to take a long vacation to somewhere with rocks and I'm going to learn to do that.

It is the purest form of flying out there. It's the most unbelievable feeling to be climbing out and sharing the same thermal with an eagle. You look over and it looks back at you and there is a sense of shared understanding of flight and how this all works. 

Lookout Mountain Georgia just outside Chattanooga is one of the best places in the US to learn to fly. But the most consistent flying is in Florida. Of course it's tow launch behind and ultralight, not foot launch off a hill. But if you're going to do it right... go to Sydney Australia and fly at Stanwell Tops. The scenery is to die for, the winds are smooth and consistent, and you can stay up all day cruising up and down the coast looking out over the Pacific.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm sorry, but I just have to post a couple of pictures to go with the above post. Stanwell Tops in New South Wales, Australia is one of the most scenic and yet easiest places to fly. 

Looking down at the launch area.

The view south down the coast.

[TTaylor]

My mistress (Ventus 2a):

[TTaylor]

Some gratuitous video . Salt River Range in Wyoming.

 

 

Edited March 9, 2021 by TTaylor

[1964-M20E]

I did one flight in a glider about 20 years ago  in the finger lakes of NY.  somewhat interested in getting glider rating just to say I have it.  Closest glider Place I found is 2 hours in the mooney.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, 1964-M20E said:

I did one flight in a glider about 20 years ago  in the finger lakes of NY.  somewhat interested in getting glider rating just to say I have it.  Closest glider Place I found is 2 hours in the mooney.

Wow! Think of the (total) flight time you'd get every weekend!

[RobertGary1]

2 hours ago, 1964-M20E said:

I did one flight in a glider about 20 years ago  in the finger lakes of NY.  somewhat interested in getting glider rating just to say I have it.  Closest glider Place I found is 2 hours in the mooney.

I think if you want to learn about gliders you really want to be somewhere with actual gliding. Just getting towed up and landing it can actually pass a checkride but you'd be missing 90% of what gliders are about.

[RobertGary1]

On 3/8/2021 at 3:07 PM, Ibra said:

 

Unlike 252, there is no way @gsxrpilot can fit an oxygen bottle in that "flying bag" and hit FL250 

I fly an Astir when it’s too bumpy to fly the family, mostly local flying or expeditions to mountains in mainland Europe but not much banging on XC competitions these days, it's hard to imagine that someone flew the same toy up to 50000ft, so it still a long way before I get bored with it !

The most efficient form of flying, but unlike Mooney flying, gliding is the best way to waste a whole weekned, get it wrong on a 2h XC day and you will need to add 8h of driving & de/rigging before getting back home 

I've heard that in Europe ground tugs are common. I don't think there are any in the US, we almost exclusively use aerotow. I've never seen an actual ground tug. Is that what you use?

[RobertGary1]

On 3/8/2021 at 5:31 PM, 201Steve said:

@201er please explain the commercial aspect of a glider. Is it just instruction? Or “glider rides” for hire?

I think the rules for commercial have changed a lot since I got mine in the 90's. I believe today even if you just give local rides you have to notify the FAA of your operation and show you have a drug testing and alcohol awareness program in place. Only exemption I'm aware of is for CFIs but it has to be instruction.

 

[201er]

25 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

I think the rules for commercial have changed a lot since I got mine in the 90's. I believe today even if you just give local rides you have to notify the FAA of your operation and show you have a drug testing and alcohol awareness program in place. Only exemption I'm aware of is for CFIs but it has to be instruction.

 

Seriously? I thought that kind of stuff only applied to part 135. Aerial photography, scenic flights, glider rides are now under similar guidance??

[carusoam]

Looks like gliders get a different set of rules...

Watching TT’s glider video... I didn’t see any tail numbers on the plane.

I did see his initials in large caps...   

Since age and hours are different for the unpowered bird... there may be a whole bunch of different regs to go with that...

PP thoughts only, not a glider pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

46 minutes ago, 201er said:

Seriously? I thought that kind of stuff only applied to part 135. Aerial photography, scenic flights, glider rides are now under similar guidance??

Part 135 applicability 

“5) Nonstop Commercial Air Tour flights conducted for compensation or hire in accordance with § 119.1(e)(2) of this chapter that begin and end at the same  airportand are conducted within a 25-statute-mile radius of that  airport; provided further that these operations must comply only with the drug and alcohol testing requirements in §§ 120.31, 120.33, 120.35, 120.37, and 120.39 of this chapter; and with the provisions of part 136, subpart A, and § 91.147 of this chapter by September 11, 2007.”

Basically you don’t need a full 135 but need to have testing programs etc in place 

[RLCarter]

Never been in a glider but my CFI was also a glider instructor, leaving a county airport years ago in a Cessna 150 he had me do a climbing 360 turn under a big ol puffy, at one point we were bumping 1800fpm, pretty impressive for tired 0-200 on a hot day

[TTaylor]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Looks like gliders get a different set of rules...

Watching TT’s glider video... I didn’t see any tail numbers on the plane.

I did see his initials in large caps...   

Since age and hours are different for the unpowered bird... there may be a whole bunch of different regs to go with that...

PP thoughts only, not a glider pilot...

Best regards,

-a-

The N-number is just above the “Contest” i.d. on the vertical.  The large Contest numbers are required on the vertical and under the wing because of close flying in races. It is helpful to know who is nearby when you are 50’ apart.  Gliders have most of the same regs as power planes.  

[Ibra]

7 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

I've heard that in Europe ground tugs are common. I don't think there are any in the US, we almost exclusively use aerotow. I've never seen an actual ground tug. Is that what you use?

In my club, we do mix of ground tug & aerotow, it's far cheaper on ground tug but needs regular training plus one has to be extremly lucky & patient to get a thermal right nearby, but they work pretty well in places near big ridges in windy days, ground tug takoff is exciting: about 1-to-1 thrust-to-weight ratio on initial pull hard to match on fixed wings unless it's paid by taxpayers 

In US, I recon there will be as many Pawnees & Cubs than tractors & trucks, so I guess it's mostly aerotows (my most memorable glider takeoff was in SGS behind one Pawnee with dust & gravel in Lake Elsinore, glad I had a CFI(G) in the back, legally that counts as IMC zero/zero departure)

Edited March 10, 2021 by Ibra

[DV8Pilot]

Active glider pilot (600+ hrs), raced gliders, flown cross-country in them, and currently a Glider authorized DPE. If I were able to re-write the regulations, everyone would at least solo in a glider before getting into any powered trainer. 

[FoxxTango]

I have <50hours in Grob 102/103's, and used to fly out of Midway (KJWY).  The pandemic has all but wiped out any glider flying.  Miss it a lot, and I am not sure when BigQ Aviation will start their glider ops again. It is one of the most amazing forms of flying, and really addictive.  Really great soaring conditions here when the weather gets a little warmer.

[BDPetersen]

I did gliding in the 90’s. Tried to make it soaring, but that’s a different story. LOL. Probably put more time in Pawnee tow plane. I always wished for magic glasses that would give a glimpse of exactly what a thermal looked like.

[RobertGary1]

7 hours ago, FoxxTango said:

I have <50hours in Grob 102/103's, and used to fly out of Midway (KJWY).  The pandemic has all but wiped out any glider flying.  Miss it a lot, and I am not sure when BigQ Aviation will start their glider ops again. It is one of the most amazing forms of flying, and really addictive.  Really great soaring conditions here when the weather gets a little warmer.

That’s surprising. The schools here in California have never been busier. Masks and no non-pilots allowed but otherwise business as usual. People are spending their vacation money learning to fly. 

[Robert C.]

A bit over 80 hrs in the 1970s in The Netherlands with the odd side trip to Germany (Oerlinghausen). Rhonlerche, Ka-8, Ka-6e, Ka-7, Ka-13. Ended up middle of the field in the Dutch National Juniors Championships in 1976.  

[RobertGary1]

For the Europeans how do you do checkrides with ground tows? Here we tow to about 5,000 feet and do stalls, steep turns, etc from the PTS requirements. But if you're only getting 1,000 feet it doesn't seem like you have time to do maneuvers.

[Ibra]

33 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

But if you're only getting 1,000 feet it doesn't seem like you have time to do maneuvers.

Indeed, it’s very constrained, I used to fly/teach at RAF Halton gliding club where it’s ground tows only (sometimes a private Pawnee is used for Aerotow), the syllabus was tailored for young cadets to go solo: winch only and 3-4 flights in K21 of 5min on winter days (they stay 7am-6pm full day to help with ops), most of them will manage to go solo fly one circuit and land after 30-40 winch flights (about 3h airtime), few stall entry & recovery at 1000ft agl (briefed on ground) but they get to do load of cable breaks

To get signed for cross-country, they had to do navigation, field selection & landing in airplanes or motor-gliders, steep turns & spins in K13 then go build their solo time, these may have to wait for summer or aerotow days, some would just go elsewhere with aerotow to get those boxes ticked, by then they should have something similar to FAA PTS level or ICAO SPL

The examiner checkride is a good soaring day with few flights on winch or 2*3000ft aerotows

 

[Robert C.]

3 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

For the Europeans how do you do checkrides with ground tows? Here we tow to about 5,000 feet and do stalls, steep turns, etc from the PTS requirements. But if you're only getting 1,000 feet it doesn't seem like you have time to do maneuvers.

Well, it was about 45 years ago, so memories have dimmed a little  and my old logbooks were more vague than I expected. I have the vague recollection of it being somewhat spread out over several flights with our club's chief instructor, who was the designated DPE for our club. A lot of 3, 4, 5, 6 minute flights in those years. Thermal filled days were few and far between on a field on the west coast just behind the dunes on the North Sea.

We'd have a summer camp every year where we took 2 of the club gliders to Terlet, the Dutch equivalent of Elmira, the National Soaring Center. Being inland with many more convective days it is where most of us got our Silver and Gold badges. That is also the location of the only checkride I can specifically remember. I asked the National Soaring Center if I could get checked out to fly their Ka-13 trainer for passenger flying (that's how you squeeze in a few extra free flights) and their Ka-6CR (a decent high-performance glider by the standards of the 60s).

When I got to the Ka-13 the instructor had taped off the entire panel. Not a single instrument was visible and the string on the canopy was the only flying aid I'd have. After the launch and bumming around for 6-7 minutes I entered the pattern at what I judged the right altitude. Shortly after turning final and on a nicely stabilized approach I hear the unmistakable sound of seatbelts being unbuckled coming from the rear. The instructor heaved himself half-way out of his seat to stick his head near mine to look and check that I haven't removed the panel cover. He apparently had a hard time accepting that I'd managed to nail the altitudes and speed

To this day, even in my Mooney, I use my ears as much as my eyes during phases of flight where airspeed (and rpm) matters.

Coda: I was a typical and impulsive teen and had arranged all this without informing/asking permission from the club instructor who acted as chaperone and GM of our summer camp. The next day he saw me climb out of a Ka-13 with a passenger and went just about apoplectic thinking I'd just gone and was doing passenger flights without the appropriate endorsement  Better to ask for forgiveness than permission...right?