AI - Sky Pointer vs Ground Pointer

[ReconMax]

I'm still looking to establish a good working relationship with an avionics shop that is convenient. So, I have not discussed this with any knowledgeable person yet so I thought I'd bring it up here.

My AI on my G600 does NOT match my backup AI. It is currently configured in "Sky Pointer" mode while my backup AI is a "Ground Pointer" type. Personally, my brain likes the "Ground Pointer" configuration better. It just feels natural to me and I'm never confused by it. However, the "Sky Pointer" AI in my G600 which is my primary AI, requires a higher level concentration which feels mechanical. 

I think I need to get it changed and that it is potentially a safety issue for IMC flight. 

The G600 manual indicates it cannot be changed by the pilot. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Screenshot of the manual page explaining it...

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, ReconMax said:

I'm still looking to establish a good working relationship with an avionics shop that is convenient. So, I have not discussed this with any knowledgeable person yet so I thought I'd bring it up here.

My AI on my G600 does NOT match my backup AI. It is currently configured in "Sky Pointer" mode while my backup AI is a "Ground Pointer" type. Personally, my brain likes the "Ground Pointer" configuration better. It just feels natural to me and I'm never confused by it. However, the "Sky Pointer" AI in my G600 which is my primary AI, requires a higher level concentration which feels mechanical. 

I think I need to get it changed and that it is potentially a safety issue for IMC flight. 

The G600 manual indicates it cannot be changed by the pilot. Does anyone have any experience with this?

Screenshot of the manual page explaining it...

As stated in the G600 manual, the GDU needs be configured the same as the backup mechanical AI.  If it is not, then the installer made a mistake and the configuration needs to be changed.  That needs an installer card to change the setting, so you need to go to an avionics shop that has the card and have it changed.  It only takes a couple of minutes.

[PT20J]

The sky pointer was developed to aid unusual attitude recovery because it always points to the sky (i.e., “up”). Apparently, you are not the only person who finds it less intuitive. Here’s a study that concludes that tested pilots were about five times more likely to roll the wrong way during unusual attitude recovery with a sky pointer. 

https://sidneydekker.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/899/2013/01/Horizon.pdf

Skip

[Jim Peace]

3 hours ago, PT20J said:

tested pilots were about five times more likely to roll the wrong way during unusual attitude recovery with a sky pointer. 

Then why is it used in almost every professional cockpit?

[jamesm]

Couldn't fly at the moment what else am I  to do?    but track down  old videos but relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35Zy_rl8WuM

fast forward to 4:09  For sky pointer

[PT20J]

29 minutes ago, Jim Peace said:

Then why is it used in almost every professional cockpit?

That's an interesting question. I think (but I'm not certain) that the sky pointer originated with the Honeywell EFIS designed for the 757/767.  Were there human factors studies that led to this design, or did it just seem like a good idea? It seems to make sense -- after an upset, the fastest way to right side up is to roll toward the sky pointer. The study I cited is the only one I've seen one way or the other Are there others with similar or differing results? 

Skip

[carusoam]

For non pro pilot types...

Recognition of how the instrument display is interpreted can become extra challenging under certain conditions...

Failure to interpret the data presented will be a near instant killer... VFR into IMC...
 

At the basic human level... put these displays in front of ordinary humans and ask them what the attitude of the plane is when they see this... More people in the general public probably gets one display better than the other

For a trained and practiced pilot... this isn’t going to be near the top of the list to worry about... unless you are having a stroke while flying solo... Or other type of cognitive challenge... O2 shortage at altitude...

PP thoughts only, not a CFII...

best regards,

-a-

[ReconMax]

That's all lots of good discussion above. I have had a while to think about it in my "new to me" airplane. It's taken me about a year to really focus on it. Mostly, the IFR BAI training has really brought it into focus. Partial panel flying had me shift to my backup AI which is  a ground pointer. After flying it for a few minutes, switching back to my primary took a few seconds and some roll to the left and right to "retrain" my brain.

The ground pointer just automatically communicates to my brain, the state of the plane. It feels natural. The sky pointer feels like it has to go through a translation step.

So, yesterday, I took it to Paul at Maxwell Aviation and he used his unlock card to fix it. He was awesome! He returned my calls! NOBODY else even returned a call or an email. 

Flying home, I knew instantly, it was the right thing to do. It felt like taking a splinter out of my brain. So, now the Primary and Backup AI match as they should.

The G600 is a great piece of equipment. It's a bit weird though in what an owner can change without the Garmin unlock card. An owner can TOTALLY screw it up by accidentally or purposefully making changes to MANY settings. However, the AI requires the unlock card to switch it from Sky Pointer to Ground Pointer. I guess the thought is they want it to match the backup and not allow the owner to change that. Okay... lol, that didn't work though and I flew the plane for longer than necessary with the AI messed up because I couldn't change it my self.

Also, just switching from ChartView to FlightCharts requires the unlock card as well. Paul took care of that for me too.

 

 

 

[carusoam]

Great pirep for PMax!

Thanks for sharing it!  And the details regarding the pointer sisters...   

Best regards,

-a-