Which model Mooney should I buy?

[golfmogul]

My research, and TONS of commends on other pilot forums, has led me to want to buy a used Mooney as my next plane.  But I could use some help picking the right model Mooney for my needs & I figured this is the place to ask.  Here's my situation:

• I'm a brand new pilot flying out of U42 in Utah (4600 MSL field) (I'm a solo student now, should pass my check ride in a few weeks)
• Been doing my training in a PA 28 - 140 I own with a friend - we have several local pilots already interested in buying it once I pass my check ride & this shared-ownership, despite being with a good friend, has taught me that sharing a plane again is not for me
• I want to immediately begin training IFR after getting my PPL in a few weeks - so the Mooney I buy needs to be very well setup for learning & flying IFR
• I have 2 kids (big kids) and a dog I plan to do some XC travel with once I get well trained in my Mooney, starting with short XC's within Utah, then as my skills & safety grow, trip distance will grow to locations around the southwestern US
• Despite that I know that most of my flying will be with just me alone or me & 1 other person (my older son, my CFI, a SO, etc), after tons of research & financial analysis etc etc I've decided I do want the plane I own to have 4 seats and be capable for the XC trips with my kids.  For those trips, we'll be leaving U42 in Utah & flying over/around the Rocky mountains with the following load:  185 me, 175 kid A, 140 kid b, 40 dog, 80 luggage  = Total: 620lbs  ... then of course  we'll need enough gas to get somewhere about 2-3 hours away (we're fine to refuel once on longer trips, once my skills build up to taking longer trips with multiple legs)
• While speed and efficiency (GPH) are nice, I'm not obsessed with it.  More important for me is to get a newer plane, or a recently refurbished plane where the engine, prop, interior, paint, and especially the avionics, are on the nicest/newest/highest end of what can be found in used Mooney's for my price range.
• Budget: If I were pushing my limits to buy my dream plane (for this phase of my life) I'd buy a 2007 Columbia/Cessna 400 Turbo with AC and a G1000 at about $300k.  Could I make it happen?  Yeah.  Is it smart to push myself to those limits financially?  No.  Hence, the Mooney.  So, if I'm going to hold off on the plane I ultimately want in order to be more conservative with my budget on this new hobby, I'm going to try to keep the purchase of the Mooney under $175k.  Preferably around $135k or less.

So, which model would you guys recommend that has a high useful load, great performance at high altitude/high DA, and where I'd be able to afford one that someone has put at least some decent glass avionics for IFR into & a nice/new interior & nice new paint & recently overhauled engine & prop etc?   Everything I read about the models seems confusing ... but so far I've focused on J and K models.  But IDK.

Thx in advance for your suggestions/advice/expertise.

Chad

[ArtVandelay]

Finding new paint,interior,glass panel, etc is not going to be easy. Those that upgrade their planes to this extent aren’t going to sell them unless they’re force to, they are called “forever” planes.

You have to decide if you need/want a turbo to narrow down your search. If you are going to fly high, you’ll need to be comfortable wearing an oxygen mask/cannula as well as your passengers.

[jaylw314]

The propensity to mountain flying does suggest thinking about a turbocharged motor, but a lot of people here will say that's certainly not a requirement.

If your budget is over $120k, you'll get a pretty nice M20J and I don't think you'd be unhappy.  A nice M20K would probably be a little more, and your running costs would be somewhat higher to.  A few people here will always recommend the M20K 252, and I can't say I disagree, although that will start getting closer to your limit.

I should also point out that while efficiency shouldn't be your primary goal if you're willing to spend money on flying, it does mean you always land with a larger fuel reserve, which increases your safety margin every flight.

[irishpilot]

Welcome[mention=19939]golfmogul[/mention]! You've come to the right forum. You'll get a lot of good advice. Here's mine. It is free so take it as such. First, I grew up flying in CO with mountains and I've flown quite a bit out of Ogden and Hill AFB. With the weight that you plan to take, I think you should look at any turbo models so you can climb over the Wasatch range or over the mountains towards Nevada. Can you do it in a NA plane, sure.

 

Second, you are a student pilot who will soon have a PPC which is an awesome feeling.

Your Instrument ticket will make you that much better and you will be proficient to fly IMC. However, Mooney's are a lot less forgiving than a 140, so build lots of dual time before planning on flying long XC with family members. They put lots of trust in you, so make sure your skills match the capability of the plane.

 

As far as Mooney's go, a short body NA C/E/F will have a nice IFR panel and be easy on gas. They are also the most forgiving. Next are the J/Ks which will be in your price range. Bravos and Ovations may be just outside the top of your range, but they are bigger and are built for long distance XC. Acclaims will be outside your budget. I don't recommend Bravo's, Ovations, or Acclaims for new pilots, and any Mooney would be a lot to handle for a 40-50 hr pilot.

 

Whatever you choose, please be careful and don't skimp on the instruction.

 

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

[geoffb]

I'm going to guess that most Mooneys, regardless of model end up with useful loads around 900 lbs +/- 50.  NA 200 HP birds will get off the ground at 5,000 ft DAs at gross, but the performance isn't really inspiring and on a hot day, dealing with the Wasatch might be less than fun.  If the 140 lb kid (or the dog) is still growing, you might want more space.

And the kid and the dog better be really friendly.

[golfmogul]

10 minutes ago, geoffb said:

I'm going to guess that most Mooneys, regardless of model end up with useful loads around 900 lbs +/- 50.  NA 200 HP birds will get off the ground at 5,000 ft DAs at gross, but the performance isn't really inspiring and on a hot day, dealing with the Wasatch might be less than fun.  If the 140 lb kid (or the dog) is still growing, you might want more space.

And the kid and the dog better be really friendly.

Yeah the weights I gave are higher than the kids & dog ... should be enough for 2 yrs of growth while we fly, then maybe move up to something else.  Weights today are about 20 lbs less x 3 so about 60 lbs less total and another 5 lbs less for me (guess I shouldn't have assumed I'll gain weight lol).

[MikeOH]

M20K

[Ross Taylor]

U42 I know pretty well...we have a co-manufacturer near there, so I'm flying into it regularly from our home strip (which is just under 7000' elevation).  We have an E, which is NA (not turbo) and I'm very happy with the performance at both ends of this trip.  Density altitude is always a concern, of course, but if you're reasonable something with E-like performance might work well for you.  The limiting factor on a short body, like an E, will be the rear seat space.

[Mooneymuscle56m]

M20K 252, but get some turbo training and enjoy.

[bonal]

Not for nothing, based on your load numbers and very limited experience I would suggest the F or J would be a good starting point for a complex traveling machine.  Also your budget would provide the very best choices in those models.  Density altitude should never be an issue as it's something that can always be managed by simply doing your math and planning accordingly.  I don't know you and how skilled a flight student you are but there is a long road ahead for you as many have said a PPL is simply a license to learn.  Adding high performance i.e., turbo charging and complex to a new pilot is a lot to add to the many things you will have to become proficient at as a new pilot.  Can it be done safely of course and it's all good until it isn't.  Good luck with you check ride and enjoy the hunt for your new wings.  Another nice thing about the J is if you do ultimately move up beyond that it's one of the most desirable models so won't be hard to sell when the time comes.

Edited August 8, 2020 by bonal

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, geoffb said:

I'm going to guess that most Mooneys, regardless of model end up with useful loads around 900 lbs +/- 50.  NA 200 HP birds will get off the ground at 5,000 ft DAs at gross, but the performance isn't really inspiring and on a hot day, dealing with the Wasatch might be less than fun.  If the 140 lb kid (or the dog) is still growing, you might want more space.

And the kid and the dog better be really friendly.

Vintage birds typically do well for useful load. My own bird would carry your specified load plus full fuel of 64gals (5hrs @ 150kts with over an hour reserves) and still be 54lbs under gross.  A turbo is a probably a good idea. I would look at TNd Fs,  TNd Js and Ks.  My advice is don’t get too hung up on engine size. You’ll see typical terms thrown around like “Big bore” and “no replacement for displacement” or “hot rod”... run the power to weight numbers using real empty weights. The high powered birds definitely have an advantage but it’s not as huge as you might imagine. 

[carusoam]

Welcome aboard GM....

How seriously do you want to take this exercise..?

The more time and effort you want to put in... the further, faster you can go safely...

 

a TC’d Mooney is a fantastic airplane... in the right experienced hands...

Kind of like  playing at Pebble Beach right after you learned how to golf...

It gets more enjoyable about a year in...

Of course... if you are going to go on a heavy training binge... the time to enjoyment increases rapidly...

 

Fast planes are unlike golf in one respect... a bad day of golf doesn’t usually lead to falling very far... 

 

If you like speed, efficiency, and safety... you have come to the right place!

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Hank]

I'd say to buy the particular Mooney that is:

• Flown regularly 
• In good mechanical shape
• Has as many of your desired electronics installed
• Paint is in good shape
• Within your price range

These are in order top to bottom. Even my C will carry 660 lb. with 5-1/2 hours of fuel.

Good luck with your search! And have fun. My suggestion is to take at least 6 months to get comfortable in your "new" plane before starting IFR lessons, you need to know how it flies, how it handles in different scenarios and what power settings are good for you and the engine. When on approach in real or simulated IMC, there's no time to flip through checklists looking for power settings when you need to level off.

[carusoam]

An M20C?

• Makes a great first Mooney...
• Four seats...
• 180hp with a super reliable carburetor... 
• fits what the OP considers big people... 
• the poodle will enjoy the C too...
• The UL of an M20C is near awesome...
• The 52 gallons of fuel can take you flying for about 5+hours...
• 150 mph goes pretty far in 5 hours... Grandma’s house and back...
• If you like... manual or electric... you get to choose...
• Makes a great last Mooney too...
• Some M20Cs have become forever-planes...
• Some eccentric Mooney owners buy very expensive instrument panels... that come complete with an attached M20C...

For a few AMU more...

• M20Es add fuel injection and 10% more power...
• M20Gs add more Space for those big kids...
• M20Fs add both space and power... for when you can’t decide what’s more important...
• For fun, just add a TN... more power at higher altitudes...

After 20years...  (Typical ownership of an M20F... around here...

I could go on... but, it’s getting late already...

Best regards,

-a-

 

[Danb]

I absolutely hate to recommend other brands, but a couple big kids yourself big dog luggage oh fuel, your pushing the limits of most Mooney’s UL. MyBravo is 1040 UL. My first recommendation would be an Eagle which many have around 1100 UL find one with a nice panel, problem not turbo charged. 252 Encore next , then I’d look at Cessna t210, of a turbo Bonanza. Good luck I hope you’ll find a Mooney to fit your mission.

[golfmogul]

12 hours ago, Hank said:

I'd say to buy the particular Mooney that is:

• Flown regularly 
• In good mechanical shape
• Has as many of your desired electronics installed
• Paint is in good shape
• Within your price range

These are in order top to bottom. Even my C will carry 660 lb. with 5-1/2 hours of fuel.

Good luck with your search! And have fun. My suggestion is to take at least 6 months to get comfortable in your "new" plane before starting IFR lessons, you need to know how it flies, how it handles in different scenarios and what power settings are good for you and the engine. When on approach in real or simulated IMC, there's no time to flip through checklists looking for power settings when you need to level off.

Thx - good advice.  I like the idea of flying lots VFR for a few months at least & getting comfortable with whatever new plane I buy before diving into IFR training.

[kortopates]

21 minutes ago, golfmogul said:

Thx - good advice.  I like the idea of flying lots VFR for a few months at least & getting comfortable with whatever new plane I buy before diving into IFR training.

The 50 hrs of cross-country for the instrument rating should take care of ensuring plenty of VFR time. Make em count though by travelling, that how you learn!

My 252\Encore has over 1100 lbs useful and awesome capability - its knows no borders. But you'll have to raise your budget. Plus its easy to fly for a Turbo.

Almost all new Turbo pilots are drawn to the 231 as their first Turbo, but is a handful to operate and has no real upgrade future beyond a Merlin and aftermarket intercooler - but still leaves the plane with a manual wastegate (but with higher critical altitude) and a lot to handle. Having no clue om what I was missing I couldn't rationalize the added expense for a real turbo - till I had some experience. When my wife got her private license, I had a whole another reason to rationalize the upgrade so that I my wife could get into right away. So I upgraded to a 252 to make it easy for her to fly it. So glad I did and with the Encore conversion I really can't imagine a more capable and still very efficient airframe.

Edited August 8, 2020 by kortopates

[Schllc]

2 hours ago, golfmogul said:

Thx - good advice.  I like the idea of flying lots VFR for a few months at least & getting comfortable with whatever new plane I buy before diving into IFR training.

Insurance is going to require a minimum of 25 hours dual before you are signed off to fly solo. 
this means you need to pay an instructor to fly with you for those 25 hours. 
it would be a waste, and a bad idea to not take advantage of those dual hours to learn good ifr practices. 
they are fun as well as challenging and will make you a better and safer pilot. 
plus it will be good experience in ‘your’ plane. 

[carusoam]

To find out how much training is required by your insurance company.... give them a call...

If you don’t have an insurance company yet...  we have Parker...

 

My first M20C required 10hrs dual, and 10hrs solo before I could take passengers...

So... if you get sentenced with lots of hours of training required...  
 

Spend it on something good... decent Transition Training with a qualified Mooney instructor is worth extra money...

PP thoughts only, not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Niko182]

Realistically, your options consist of a screaming eagle, or an encore. Which one you choose doesnt really matter, theyll offer about the same performance on about the same fuel flow in the teens. Your main problem is useful load. Most clean encores and eagles will have at least an 1100lbs useful load. With that, you can carry your entire family, but its slightly tight. The dog will make it an issue. I absolutely love my eagle, especially with its 1217lbs useful load, but im always thinking an a36 with the atlantic aero io550r conversion would probably be a better fit. And im going to recommend you pass on the mooney, and get a toga, a 210, or a 36.

I adore my mooney, but i realized after moving away from rentals, i fill up the plane with either people or bikes, or luggage, and evertime I fly somewhere, the plane is filled to the brim. In the end, i think id gladly give up 5 to 8 knots on the same fuel flow, for the ability to have some barn doors and carry  a 1500lbs of useful load or more. If you have a dog and kids, those barn doors will be magical for you. 

[kortopates]

Realistically, your options consist of a screaming eagle, or an encore. Which one you choose doesnt really matter, theyll offer about the same performance on about the same fuel flow in the teens. Your main problem is useful load. Most clean encores and eagles will have at least an 1100lbs useful load. With that, you can carry your entire family, but its slightly tight. The dog will make it an issue. I absolutely love my eagle, especially with its 1217lbs useful load, but im always thinking an a36 with the atlantic aero io550r conversion would probably be a better fit. And im going to recommend you pass on the mooney, and get a toga, a 210, or a 36.
I adore my mooney, but i realized after moving away from rentals, i fill up the plane with either people or bikes, or luggage, and evertime I fly somewhere, the plane is filled to the brim. In the end, i think id gladly give up 5 to 8 knots on the same fuel flow, for the ability to have some barn doors and carry  a 1500lbs of useful load or more. If you have a dog and kids, those barn doors will be magical for you. 

I love the A36 also with the doors and 300HP engine. It's a great next size up airframe, that I would much prefer over a C210.


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[Schllc]

Family of four here, with a acclaim ultra. Useful load is only 859#  

that puts me right at about 60 gallons with the whole family and baggage on board.

thats still three hours flying which is about all any of us can take when all together anyway.
(I’m 170, and the three girls are all hovering around 100# and Yes, we pack VERY light).  

when I was looking for my first plane, everyone I talked to said,... mission mission mission... so here is mine:  I fly between 200-250 hours a year Half of that is short trips under 90 min, the rest 3-5 hour trips.   Only about 20% or less of these are with the whole crew, so while I certainly could use the utility of a bonanza at times, my mission does not require this capability with the exception of the three times in four years we had to ship bags or extra stuff because I didn’t have the UL  

So the remaining 80% of my mission is faster and cheaper in the mooney, plus....im in  a mooney!

ive looked at the bonanza a lot over the last few years, and it’s a fine plane, and if money were no object I’d love to get one, but when you can buy an identically equipped mooney for half the prices it was an easy decision for me.

the challenge for a new buyer is to honestly evaluate how they will actually use the plane, not how they “hope” to use it.

if I had one gripe about all the mooney’s I’ve owned it would be the noise.  They ultra is the quietest by far, but it’s still loud.  If a bonanza was a lot quieter, that’s about the only thing that could influence me to consider, or if my mission changed, or the turboprop bonanza which keeps popping into my view, but that’s more of a whim justified by the safety of a turbine, I certainly wouldn’t be in a better spot for UL or range.  If rocket had made an m20 with a pt6 I don’t think I could resist trying that!

 

[Niko182]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

I love the A36 also with the doors and 300HP engine. It's a great next size up airframe, that I would much prefer over a C210.


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I'm a fan of the atlantic aero a36's. They have the cowling and 310hp engine off the mooney put on an a36 or a v35. They bring the cruise speeds of the 36's to around 170 to 175knots on about 13gph, and the 35s to about 175 to 185knots on the 13gph. That combined with the significantly quieter cabin and the useful load on the 1978 to 1983 hitting the high 1500lbs with the 4023 gross weight and the ability to really go off airport makes them look really good. Im not saying the mooney isnt good. All im saying is that when youre flying with 4 people and luggage a large amount of the time, you want a six seater. 

[carusoam]

I’m a big fan of flying a full grown family of four around with a 30pound dog....

In an Ovation...

if I had to get a Brand B because my dog was overweight...

I’d kick myself for getting Brand B advice from MS...

 

As much as it may seem to be valuable, it loses its credibility...

 

Ovations perfect for a family of four with or without a dog...

Go Mooney!

Best regards,

-a-

[Shadrach]

In rereading the OP, I think a long body is the only way.  Need the extra baggage room for the dog carrier.  Could be done in a pinch in a mid body but it's not the right tool for the job.