Landing a Mooney Ovation

[Fly_M20R]

24 minutes ago, kortopates said:

I'll disagree since if you fly in weather, and you get comfortable using them on approaches then it will be too easy to forget and  deploy them in subfreezing temps by accident and then won't be able to get them to retract or even worse only one side retracts.
personally IMHO its really poor form to use them on approaches and in landings, in the same vein some pilots only want to use partial flap on landing to avoid properly trimming and airspeed control; i.e. a crutch. Ordinarily I am all about using every available tool but speed brakes can be hazardous in subfreezing temps. 

My personal goal in speed brakes usage is to limit my use to ATC mistakes rather than my own in order to realize maximum efficiency in my descents - so I'll take a PD descent at 2-300' FPM at cruise power every time I can get.

Hi Paul,

Great hearing from you again. You always have good advice. However, I did say that one should not use them in icing conditions in my reply to Denis where I quoted and agreed with Flyingscott. Yep, one could get that so engrained in muscle memory that they are inadvertently deployed in icing conditions but that is where one has that item in the "checklist" prior to deploying them... Of course, why fly through ice unless absolutely no choice? At that point need higher KIAS anyway mitigating speed brake use. 

My current Ovation is lower drag than other Mooney models and I found that to keep engine warm enough during some descents that speed brakes are useful. This is the only Model where I have found that I use them more frequently than any other one I have owned (one J, two K's and two M's). I never used them in the J since didn't have any nor in the K's. The first M had them but I do not recall using them. Played around some with them in the last M where I would use them for descents at 500 fpm if I didn't want to change power settings or airspeed. It had the newer speed brake series.

Chris

[kortopates]

Hi Paul,
Great hearing from you again. You always have good advice. However, I did say that one should not use them in icing conditions in my reply to Denis where I quoted and agreed with Flyingscott. Yep, one could get that so engrained in muscle memory that they are inadvertently deployed in icing conditions but that is where one has that item in the "checklist" prior to deploying them... Of course, why fly through ice unless absolutely no choice? At that point need higher KIAS anyway mitigating speed brake use. 
My current Ovation is lower drag than other Mooney models and I found that to keep engine warm enough during some descents that speed brakes are useful. This is the only Model where I have found that I use them more frequently than any other one I have owned (one J, two K's and two M's). I never used them in the J since didn't have any nor in the K's. The first M had them but I do not recall using them. Played around some with them in the last M where I would use them for descents at 500 fpm if I didn't want to change power settings or airspeed. It had the newer speed brake series.
Chris

Hi Chris, thanks and me too!
I understood your caveat, my contention is that if one gets comfortable using them on approaches it becomes too easy to forget when in subfreezing temps and deploy them and then see them stick open even without being in icing but just subfreezing conditions.
Sometimes i’ve thought i should just pull the breaker to ensure not accidentally deploying them.
Agreed though if you’re disciplined enough not too then it shouldn’t be a concern, but for those that get into the habit of using them it’s very easy to deploy them when they shouldn’t be.
Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fly_M20R]

57 minutes ago, kortopates said:

.... but for those that get into the habit of using them it’s very easy to deploy them when they shouldn’t be.
Paul


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Totally agree Paul.

[carusoam]

Deploying speed brakes as a normal procedure…

works against the whole speed and efficiency mantra of most Mooney’s pilots….

unless, your engine is on fire, and you want to be on the ground in two minutes…

 

Speed brake efficiency is a speed squared kind of thing…

deploying them during high speed cruise is way more effective than during approach or landing phases…

 

in an emergency descent… 

you will be using all of the brakes…

gear down, no throttle, prop in, speed brakes deployed…

descending at gear deployed speed, slightly faster than gear operating speed.

 

best practiced before needing it.  For best engine economics… Bring somebody along that has done it before…

descent rates can exceed 3X of our normal climb rates… it definitely goes off the Vsi scale of many Vertical speed indicators…

PP thoughts only, not a CFI…   
 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[MooneyMitch]

Just for fun and a thrill….. occasionally, and with no other traffic in the area or in the pattern, I would descend into the pattern at high speed, reduce throttle all the way back, activate the speed brakes  and eventually lower the gear at 140 kts….. 

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, MooneyMitch said:

Just for fun and a thrill….. occasionally, and with no other traffic in the area or in the pattern, I would descend into the pattern at high speed, reduce throttle all the way back, activate the speed brakes  and eventually lower the gear at 140 kts….. 

it’s awesome isn’t it!  I know this is slightly different, but I assure you there’s some of that same rush in the Mooney…

When deployed overseas, we often flew “tactical recoveries” just in case someone tried to sit a mile off the end of the runway with a “manpad” and pick you off.  Also, because they were really fun.  There are many options, but speed, randomness and altitude (high or low) all play a factor.  You didn’t want to come up initial at 300kts /1000’ being predictable like at your home station.  On one deployment, there were two options, 500’, 500kts up initial to a climbing break for downwind, and the other one was a high altitude (~15,000’) steep dive to downwind.  All of these were done in 2 or 4 ship flights.  I was sitting as supervisor in the tower one morning (~6am) during the actual invasion part of OIF and 2 Navy F-14s (yes, we still had them then) came back from Iraq and wanted to wake up the base.  They came up initial at somewhere around 50’ and I don’t know how fast, but they weren’t quite supersonic.  The “tower” was very short, but I only saw the top of them going by below me before the incredible roar which I thought might bring down the building.  Before #2 had called gear down, the phone was ringing.  The USAF colonel in charge of operations was screaming mad and since the pilots weren’t currently available, he was taking it out on me.  I could only picture the scene in top gun of Maverick and Goose standing outside the office after their high speed pass!

So that arrival wasn’t used much after that… but we did have some fun with the high one.  One morning after flying all night, I brought my 2 ship home completely out of bombs and very little fuel too!  We were up around 35,000’ just hanging on min power to drift home.  No speed restrictions from bombs, I figured that was as good an altitude as any to enter the pattern.  So I flew to the left “downwind” with my wingman out about 1/2 nm to the right, clicked the mic twice to get his attention, rolled inverted, idle power, and pulled the nose down until it centered on the little nader dot in the hud that was 90 degrees down.  I looked over at my wingman and his jet looked so awesome pointing straight down, still out there, sunrise in the background.  It felt like an eternity, but I was happy to see the Eagle (with missiles and external fuel tanks still) wouldn’t quite get supersonic in idle power.  I swear it felt like 2 minutes, but eventually I tensed up my legs and pulled about 5 or 6 Gs to pull out of the dive and kill the speed, dropped the gear and flaps  and rolled off on base.  I was basking in the glow of my arrival on rollout when my wso pulled out his earplug and found a pool of blood.  Apparently he was a little clogged, hadn’t said anything because it “was so awesome”, and had almost burst his eardrum.  He missed the next 5 days of flying and had to be a mission planner until he healed.

[MikeOH]

@Ragsf15e

Awesome!  Sounds like a hoot, for sure

Humor me an ignorant question: Since you still have to fly a base and final in one of these "tactical recoveries" after you have slowed up, how do they prevent the bad guy with a MANPAD from taking you out at that point?

[Ragsf15e]

49 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

@Ragsf15e

Awesome!  Sounds like a hoot, for sure

Humor me an ignorant question: Since you still have to fly a base and final in one of these "tactical recoveries" after you have slowed up, how do they prevent the bad guy with a MANPAD from taking you out at that point?

You don’t.  Technically you still have the flares and chaff armed (which would be a big no no at home) in the pattern but you’re so slow that you’d probably be toast. Hopefully the base defense people are patrolling a wide area around the base.  I will say that we flew very tight patterns, thus the derogatory term “bomber pattern” for a wide one.  Yeah, if you’re going to combat in an army unit, on a ship, or in a fighter aircraft, there will always be times where you know that you’re very vulnerable.  You try to minimize that, but sometimes it can’t be helped or the mission is important enough that you do it anyway.

[Denis Mexted]

Thanks for the info and stories guys. 

I did 36 hours for the week in it and enjoyed it a lot. (apart from pulling the top cowl in 40*c blazing sun to see where an oil leak was coming from)

I got use to the speed brakes. While the cruising (3 to 4 hour legs) was mostly in the smooth. The descents were rough with heavy convective turbulence. So the brakes just pulling the speed back a bit were welcome. 

It was a good machine for those legs. Although the dirt strips play havoc with props in that area. Mostly the stations have pads for run ups. Although on a couple I did a run down the runway at 40kts to cycle the prop. The main station was Newcastle Waters which is 10,350 square kilometres, or 2,557,000 acres.

The heating issue on departure has to be related to fuel flow and I've directed the regular pilot to the TCM 97-3E.

I'm back to my day job in a couple of weeks so it's unlikely I'll fly it soon. But it was a great week.

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by Denis Mexted
Added on NCW info.

[carusoam]

On 11/28/2024 at 5:00 AM, Denis Mexted said:

Thanks for the info and stories guys. 

I did 36 hours for the week in it and enjoyed it a lot. (apart from pulling the top cowl in 40*c blazing sun to see where an oil leak was coming from)

I got use to the speed brakes. While the cruising (3 to 4 hour legs) was mostly in the smooth. The descents were rough with heavy convective turbulence. So the brakes just pulling the speed back a bit were welcome. 

It was a good machine for those legs. Although the dirt strips play havoc with props in that area. Mostly the stations have pads for run ups. Although on a couple I did a run down the runway at 40kts to cycle the prop. The main station was Newcastle Waters which is 10,350 square kilometres, or 2,557,000 acres.

The heating issue on departure has to be related to fuel flow and I've directed the regular pilot to the TCM 97-3E.

I'm back to my day job in a couple of weeks so it's unlikely I'll fly it soon. But it was a great week.

 

Denis,

which engine/prop do you have in your ovation?

that looks like the 280hp Mac prop, that may be limited to 280hp…

 

fuel flow FF is often used for CHT control during T/O and climb…

Setting FF for the 310hp IO550 may require convincing your mechanic to set it above 30gph at WOT…

There are renferences around here for FFs that people use for their IO550s at 2700rpm.

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

best regards,

-a-