Safety of emergency landing on a road?

[jetdriven]

I hear pilots say they would pick a road for their first choice in event of an engine failure in cruise. I have also seen this choice made during flight training / BFR's etc. 

What would you do?  What if it was at night, does that change things?  Please put the reasoning behind such a decision as well. There are many different ideas, we can collect them here.

[231Pilot]

A smooth field might be bumpy, and there might be some damage to the plane, but theree are no ppower lines and no 18 wheelers on that smooth field and it should be much safer for more people.  I admit that a successful landing on a road is one that you can walk away from, but there are too many possible hazards to make that my first choice.

[Jeff_S]

There are too many variables to have just one answer. All else being equal...meaning that each option presents itself in its best possible condition...I'd take a major road or highway as having the best option for a safe landing that also protected the plane. Of course, if that major highway had major traffic, then the next best option would be the smooth or grass field I suppose.

[Gone]

My first reaction to this question is that, in an emergency, my aircraft no longer belongs to me.  It belongs to the insurance company so it does not matter to me if the airframe gets bent.  It does matter to me if people do.  We are all required to save those on the ground before we save those in our aircraft because those on the ground are essentially innocent bystanders.

That is why I would avoid using a road - even though it might have a wide paved surface.  The only vehicle moving in the plowed field will be my aircraft - and it is my job to arrange that motion so that my people can walk away from the encounter.  Most lift,  slowest speed, smoothest roll out (if any). If any of you have not heard Jolie talk about her experience, it is worth the time.

Now having said all that, most of my flying is over Eastern Canada and the North Eastern and Central US and this affects my first reaction to the question.  Even in this area my decisions over the boreal forest of Northern Ontario and Quebec are not going to be the same as over the farmlands of Wisconsin or Iowa.  They would be different as well if I was flying over the Rockies, or the Badlands, or the flats near Bonneville.

JMO.  YMMV.

[Hank]

In these limited conditions, my choices in order are:

1) Interstate highway. It's wide, flat and in an uncongested area may be traffic-free. No power lines, few signs and pretty straight and level.

2) Relatively flat ground, plowed, planted, whatever is available. Short crops [beans, cotton] are preferred, because corn, wheat, etc., are tall enough to mask many surface undulations. Pastures are nicely clear but often use second-quality land that is bumpy, rutted, holed and gullied [can I verbify those nouns?] as well as being slanted sideways to my intended approach.

3) In mountainous terrain, I'll take what I can get, but most level places are occupied on the east side of The River. Rivers and lakeshores provide options if you treat the shoreline like the runway edge and ditch as close as possible, but few mountain rivers are suitably wide, deep enough and rock-free..

Traditional 4-lane divided highways are way down on my list, just after "full-stall flare into the treetops" because of the proliferation of roadsigns, power lines, poles, mailboxes, etc. My wingspan is 36'; most traffic lanes are 10-12' wide, and shoulders are often no more than 3' toward the median and 6-10' toward the outside, giving 29-37' [often less] between the reflector posts. All it takes is one roadsign or mailbox 4x4 to completely ruin your rollout with a violent skew toward the impact.

I remember reading about a poor soul who put a Mooney down in the treetops at night two or three years ago, southern Alabama/Georgia/N. Florida area. After daylight he climbed down, walked around, found a house and used their phone to call 911. I've also read recently about someone in Virginia who tried putting a long-body down on a dirt road between a plowed field and the woods, and hit a tree, spinning into the rest of them. The crops might damage the gear or the belly, but is unlikely to bash in the wing; with my plane, either would total it out, but I know which one would most likely hurt me more--sudden stops are to be avoided at all cost.

[Skywarrior]

In my area, there are *many* sets of power lines crossing the interstates. (We gots three of them.) Scares me...

Chuck M.

[John Pleisse]

 

 

As roads go, interstates only. Straddle the median first, then pick a lane. All other times, agricultural paralleling rows. Night, fly to light.....just like a moth to a front porch light.

[rob]

Quote: N4352H

As roads go, interstates only. Straddle the median first then pick a lane. All other times, agricultural paralleling rows. Night, fly to light.....just like a moth to a front porch light.

[jlunseth]

In PPL I was trained not to land on a road, but to use a field.  This was an FAA position at the time.  But if I go down, and unless I find a nice mowed hay field conveniently located, it is going to be a rural road.  I am a bird hunter, have been all my life, and I have walked all those "nice, smooth farm fields."  They would be deadly for an aircraft, especially in corn country, because they are plowed every year.  That said, the training school where I keep my plane had an offield a couple of years ago, the Chief Pilot and a CFI on a checkout ride went down in the M20J.  Throttle cable stuck.  They landed in a field with a little snow, plane unhurt and pilots good too.

What I have noticed about farm fields in practicing offields, in addition to knowing how rough they are, is that all of them are rimmed with electric wires.  If you are going to have to thread your way around, over, or under wires anyway, I would pick a nice, known smooth surface to land on, and that would be a rural road.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: Hank

I remember reading about a poor soul who put a Mooney down in the treetops at night two or three years ago, southern Alabama/Georgia/N. Florida area. After daylight he climbed down, walked around, found a house and used their phone to call 911. I've also read recently about someone in Virginia who tried putting a long-body down on a dirt road between a plowed field and the woods, and hit a tree, spinning into the rest of them.

[sapientia]

I'm working on my PPL; this mornings flight I was asked to go through engine out emergency landing procedures and identify a suitable landing spot.  I live in the mountains and am doing my training in the mountains as well so that immediately limits my options relative to many other locations.  This morning there did happen to be a couple nice "looking" fields off to my right which is where I indicated that I would land.  Hopefully, I will never have to find out how nice those fields really are.

[jetdriven]

Rob, are you so sure you would see the power lines before hitting them? They slingshot you into the ground if you hit them right, and that is a certain fatality.

Also, highway lanes are 12 feet. Add 4 ft of shoulder both sides gives you 32 feet total pavement.  But your wingspan is 36.  What happens when a honda comes over the hill with 3 kids in it.  What happens to you? What happens to them closing at 140 MPH?

Quote: rob

 

if a road has power lines on it/near it, you'll see them before you hit them. If possible, I'd pick a road that's got ample room between houses (there's almost always power lines near houses) and near a field that I could sidestep to if I wasn't able to fit in due to power lines/etc. It doesn't have to be an interstate or even a 4 lane for me.

I disagree with the fly to the light at night, ideally, I'd want to be near somewhere that's close enough to people, but not lit. I'd choose an unlit portion to make the approach to. At least I would do so here in the Memphis area. Terrain knowledge is a factor. Those interstates will be unlit at night, too, and make great runways . City streets/residential areas/etc which would be lit are poor forced landing areas in my opinion.

[jetdriven]

What happens whan you run out of energy and must commit but the traffic wont give you room?

Also, night fly to light, what powers those lights.   Wires.

Quote: N4352H

 

 

As roads go, interstates only. Straddle the median first, then pick a lane. All other times, agricultural paralleling rows. Night, fly to light.....just like a moth to a front porch light.

[Hank]

Matthew--

You're in the middle of God's country! Review with your CFI what makes a "good" forced landing site, and practice looking for them. I-26 is about the only decent road around, and often low traffic once you get away from Johnson City, but it gets pretty steep. Corn and bean fields can be attractive. Be careful, though--someone ran out of fuel near Asheville a couple of Decembers ago and hit trees on his approach into a pasture, which turned it almost vertical. That is stuck in my memory because it was my model of plane, and I fly into KAVL when visiting Mom & Dad.

Find something that looks good from the air, then drive past it and look for power lines, poles, signs, gullies, etc., and it will improve your ability to find good alternatives.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: jetdriven

 

[rob]

Quote: jetdriven

[John Pleisse]

So a famous FAA Examiner in our area and I were talking one day. I asked if any of the 6,000 plus PP certs (actually over 10,000 incl ratings) she had issued resulted in any crashes and/or fatalities. She said she knew of two. One was a Baron engine out on departure and it ended sadly. The other was a PP she had issued to a gentleman who owned a Cub. He had to put it down on I-270 NW of D.C.. I asked how he could have died botching something so survivable. She said, he did survive. He caused a car to swerve, resulting in an auto fatality.

I am sure, when the engine quits, especially at night, few of us will recall the pontification on Mooneyspace and do .......whatever it takes.

[fantom]

From readings posted on this site in the last few days, I'm giving up flying over water, over mountains, at night, in rain, in clouds, no slips, keeping a 20 gallon margin in each tank, and lots more. Thinking about rading in the Mooney for a Lincoln Town Car with curb feelers and run flat tires. ;-)

Man, have I been luckly for decades. Not very bold, not too old, and balance so called risk with experience, practice, and ability. If the devil wants us, he's gonna get us not matter what.

As Helen Keller said:

"Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing."

We all set our own limits, but for me, some of what I'm reading would make flying just an expensive boring exercise.

YMMV, of course.

[rob]

Quote: N4352H

I am sure, when the engine quits, especially at night, few of us will recall the pontification on Mooneyspace and do .......whatever it takes.

[John Pleisse]

Quote: rob

 

Very true. 

[fantom]

Yeah...the TLS jumped out right away.

[johnggreen]

Lots of good comments, but please remember these.  Regardless of where you choose to land, ah, "crash land", touch down with your airplane in control.  This means:

1.  Try to land into the wind.

2.  Touch down just above stall as slow as possible, but don't stall.  Be in control.

3.  Wings perfectly level.  If you cart wheel, you are dead regardless of the surface.

4.  Fuel off, master and mags off, open a door so that it can't get wedged shut.  If you die, it will probably be from fire.  Get out and run like hell.

5.  If you have obstacles split them and take wings off to dissapate energy.

Plowed fields are almost never an issue these days.  No till and low till farming have almost eliminated plowing.  When I was a kid, I learned to fly from ag pilots who flew Stearman.  They all had engine failures regularly; almost every spray season.  They would almost always try to take a field instead of a road.  They knew how you could not see power lines.

I have survived three engine failures.  Incredibly and luckily, I made an airport each time.  There ain't no substitute for altitude!!!

JG

[Immelman]

I don't think there are any absolutes. You look around, decide what's best, and go there. Flying in Alaska recently, if there was a highway, it was a no-brainer: Flat, barely any traffic, no power lines. Around here: Lots of wires, lots of traffic. A field, if there is one, is a much better choice.

The only thing that gives me comfort about a field is that I'm well-insured. Aircraft values have declined since I bought my bird and I kept the insurance @ purchase price. Makes the decision to put the airplane in the best spot (regardless of what it might to do the airplane) that much easier. Of course, this is all arm-chair discussion as, knock-on-wood, I haven't had to make an off-airport landing yet.

[jetdriven]

Rob, if you really think you can spot all wires from 5000' that is really something.   I'd like to see that one in person, then drive out to the place picked and look it over real good.  I just cannot believe it.  i look for them every time I practice a forced landing with a student and typically you cant see them all until below 1000 AGl, or less.  Powerline wires are too small to be seen reliably from far away.

Sure, you can land on a 25 foot runway, but that runway isnt lined on both sides with power lines, poles, trees, overhanging trees, mailboxes, fences, culverts, embankments. etc. And there is no way to know if the road is so flat you can see a car approaching until you are already commited to land on it.  And as far as trusting the Honda driver to recognize an approaching airplane on a 2 lane road, consider this. Most drivers panic and lock up the brakes. So they maybe stop but you still hit them.  Or they must completely leave the roadway and the shoulder as well. This commits them to the obstacles, culverts, trees, etc.  they cannot pass you and remain on the smooth clearway. So perhaps they have the accident, not you.

A smooth obstruction free wheat field has nothing to cause you to lose control. So the thing slides to a stop.

here are some roadway accidents. Notice in almost all lthese, the pilot hits something and loses control. The plane is torn to pieces.

http://www.kfvs12.com/story/15224944/airplane-crash-lands-on-road-in-mccracken-county

-hit mailbox and lost control.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=8343067

-hit wires.

http://napavalleyregister.com/news/local/plane-crash-lands-on-highway-hits-car/article_7432e48e-d1b4-11e0-bc47-001cc4c03286.html

-hit a car and then lost control.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/plane-crash-lands-in-sydney-park-20110209-1ameo.html

-hit wires and lost control.  Note the damage.

http://www.pjstar.com/news/x1340500739/Airplane-crash

-hit a pole and lost control.  note damage.

-hit something and lost control.

http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2010/04/04/137971_todays-news.html

-hit tree then lost control.

http://www.velozia.com/plane-crash-lands-on-australian-road

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/04/two_people_are_injured_after_s.html

-hit poles and crashed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-11973864

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-08-31/story/no-one-hurt-airplanes-crash-landing-i-10-jacksonville

-swerved to miss vehicles most control

http://1800theeagle.com/accidents-in-the-news/2011/08/plane-crash-leads-to-accident-on-road-way-800585572/

-hit car lost control, hitting other obstacles.

http://alldaycoffee.wordpress.com/2010/10/08/plane-crash-lands-on-1-264-watterson-in-louisville-ky/

http://mountainenterprise.com/atf.php?sid=6704&current_edition=2010-03-26

here is what the EAA says, and it boils down to the idea that you can control your plane when landig in an area with no obsturctions, and there are too many on roadways. 

http://www.eaa.org/lightplaneworld/articles/1004_landings.asp

Roads may make a good landing site when there is no better alternative.  Here is an article about that as well. http://www.slate.com/articles/life/transport/2010/03/when_planes_land_on_highways.html

here is another writer, who discourages the use of roads unless there are no better alternatives  http://www.pilotworkshop.com/tip.htm

Again, when there are no better alternatives. In mountainous areas, swamps, forests, or congested areas, a road is likely the best choice.

Quote: rob

[rob]

Quote: jetdriven