Need to get some Mooney experience

[kujo806]

Hello all.  It has been a while since I posted, but life gets in the way of fun stuff sometimes.  I got away from thinking of owning a plane for a while, but with recent situational changes, I have started to think about it again.  I started perusing the for sale ads again, and noticed a lot of interesting Mooneys out there.  I had stopped thinking about Mooneys for some years since having a family and little time to fly.  I sat in an E and an Acclaim before, but never had the privilege of flying one.  I am concerned about egress, comfort, skill required, but I want to get some first hand experience.  I admit that the E made me feel claustrophobic and doesn't fit the bill.  I am not sure if the longer bodies will feel better or not.

Does anyone know of a place with a rental or leaseback M20 that I could get some dual time in?  Even if I could sit in a J or K to get a feel for fit and ergonomics, it would be helpful.  Preferably somewhat near Chicago.  Thanks in advance.

 

Jon

[Nick Pilotte]

Kujo, looking at your profile, you live near KDPA. I know there are at least two K models there because I’ve seen them in the hangars on the northwest corner.  I know there is an Ovation and an Acclaim based there as well, however  I don’t know if any of the owners are here on MS. I don’t know of any on leaseback or rentals locally but if you have a PPL or are close to it, you could probably negotiate ride alongs for a nominal fee of contributing to gas or burger funds if anyone offers up to get the feel of the aircraft platforms for yourself.  I find these Mooney folks to be very nice down to earth and strong ambassadors to the brand so far.
 

I would pose these questions first for you to help decide what fits you. What is your flight experience?  IR and retract experience?  If not, there are Mooney specialists that can help with both as well as insurance pros on here too.  What is your typical mission, distance, crew and passenger load? You won’t likely fit full fuel and full seats, so UL is a good idea to consider (hint, my wife could fill a PC-12 for a weekend trip to Indy so any aircraft is a compromise to her). Are you looking to buy as sole owner or partnership on a plane? Budget dictates airframe age and avionics (which should be considered if you have or are planning IR).  Lastly, plan for specialized transition training and attending MAPA and Mooney Summit events.  

[kujo806]

Hi Nick,

Good to hear from a local.  I will try to summarize my situation without boring everyone.  I got my license in 2012 and relatively quickly got into a partnership in an Arrow II.  I lived in Iowa at the time.  The partnership worked out very well, and I actually really liked that plane (especially after I upgraded the avionics).  Most of my time is in Arrows actually.  I have always liked the idea (and look) of Mooneys and frequented this forum years back.  One of the members in this forum was kind enough to let me see his E model a long time ago, and I remember being surprised how tight I felt in it, primarily in the foot wells.  Shortly after I was going to fly a leaseback J model, but it turned out to have a major oil leak, and that flight got scrubbed.  That leaseback disappeared, I got busy with a high stress job, and I had a few kids.  Two years ago I got an opportunity to move back to the Chicago area.  I had to sell my Arrow share, and got into a general flying club at KDPA (Fox).  They have decent planes, but the availability is way worse than what I was used to.  That combined with my unpredictable work schedule and COVID19, and I am getting the itch to investigate ownership again.  I am open to partnerships as long as availability will be good.  I don't have my IFR yet, but plan to in the near future if I can find a good accelerated program.  I actually took my knowledge test years back, but as a result of the move and job change, it expired before I could do the practical.

Okay so mission is I want to fly with my family (4 of us total), but in all honesty, most time will probably be just me.  For a time I thought about a Lance or A36, but I just think it would be overkill and over expense for the majority of my mission (Sure the wife would enjoy it though).  This is why I concluded that as long as it is bearable for the family to take some trips in without too much complaining, it probably makes more sense.  Most of the time I will be in the midwest, so turbos don't make a lot of sense.  That said if I have it a long time, I do plan to retire to my airpark land in Payson, AZ which has high DA.

I'd like to keep the upfront cost below $150k (maybe more like 125), so if necessary, get something decent for <100 and put money into it, but would be great to find something turnkey for <125.  I want decently modern avionics and autopilot.

I have been looking at what's out there that meets this list of requirements.  I really like Diamonds and Tecnams, but anything in that more modern realm is going to be over $200k.  I looked at 182s, and I just think they are high priced for what they are.  I saw some nicely equipped turbo Arrow IIIs fully upgraded with the Merlyn, intercooler, avioinics, etc., and they peaked my interest.  I get it that Mooney's are better made, faster, better fit&finish, etc.  I also know my family and I are comfortable with the Arrow.  Maintenance (in availability of parts and A&Ps) and skill required to fly one is well understood.  I could land them well, and there is no fear of the unknown.  I think the turbo would be a near must though because 135knts just doesn't do it for me anymore :).

That said, as I looked, I saw several M20Js and Ks in the market also nicely equipped.  This does comes with concern for cabin comfort and landing proficiency though, and that is why I am looking to get some more experience with them.  Hopefully I can get connected with some of the midwest Mooney guys and get some of my curiosities answered.  Thanks for your response, and I always did find this forum to be friendly and helpful!

Jon

[carusoam]

Going on old memories may not be very helpful...

See if you can sit in a mid length Mooney and become familiar again...

 

If you like speed and efficiency... the tightness you feel isn’t accidental... 

Realistically, Many people are surprised about what they felt wasn’t an accurate measurement...

Mooneys are actually wider than many four seaters...

Somebody put the seats close to the floor... very different than a Cessna...

Getting the right seat and upholstery makes a huge difference in comfort level...

 

 

Now that you know one of the secrets of going fast... how fast do you want to go?

Turbo in the flight levels fast? 
 

Speed and efficiency can be economical using a Mooney... big comfortable cabins start losing the economics pretty quickly...

Best regards,

-a-

[KLRDMD]

27 minutes ago, kujo806 said:

Okay so mission is I want to fly with my family (4 of us total), but in all honesty, most time will probably be just me.  For a time I thought about a Lance or A36, but I just think it would be overkill and over expense for the majority of my mission (Sure the wife would enjoy it though).  This is why I concluded that as long as it is bearable for the family to take some trips in without too much complaining, it probably makes more sense.  Most of the time I will be in the midwest, so turbos don't make a lot of sense.  That said if I have it a long time, I do plan to retire to my airpark land in Payson, AZ which has high DA.

Based on that, look at the 33/35 series Bonanzas.

[Nick Pilotte]

How long of trips are you planning or expecting?  The 33/35 series Bonanza would probably be a good fit.  I wouldn't discount a Comanche 250 or something like that either.  However, if you decide you want a Mooney, there are many good examples around.  I wish you luck in your search, if you find an E might work for you, the best example out there, an Oshkosh attention-getter is on the market, and would be under your budget.  If you want/need more room, I know there are some (cough) Cirrus rentals at DPA. Those offer some more room, albeit at a higher fuel burn.

 

 

Edited May 29, 2020 by Nick Pilotte