Which Mooney to pick

[warrenehc]

Hello, I am a low time pilot (250 hours), but I have multiple cross country flights from coast to coast. 

I have owned and flown a Cessna 150 since 0 hour of flight training. 

Im looking to get into a M20 C,E,orF

I have been doing the research and know the differences of carb and injected, the leg room and fuel capacity between the three. 

What I’m looking for is opinions and suggestions on what to step into next.

Budget is around 50k. 

 

[chriscalandro]

Of that bunch I’d prefer the C. And 50k should get you something pretty good. 

[carusoam]

I went from C152 to an M20C at 100 hours...

An E and F would have been better for my mission.... but they each cost 10amu more than the other...

My objective was to see if GA was for me.... the C worked very well for that...

Got more skill and went M20R...

Best regards,

-a-

[Skates97]

27 minutes ago, warrenehc said:

Hello, I am a low time pilot (250 hours), but I have multiple cross country flights from coast to coast. 

I have owned and flown a Cessna 150 since 0 hour of flight training. 

Im looking to get into a M20 C,E,orF

I have been doing the research and know the differences of carb and injected, the leg room and fuel capacity between the three. 

What I’m looking for is opinions and suggestions on what to step into next.

Budget is around 50k. 

 

I would step into any of those models if you can find one that fits your price range, is equipped the way you want it, and passes a pre-buy inspection. I had 58.6 hours total, all in Cherokee's, when I bought and started flying my Mooney.

[SantosDumont]

I bought a 67F as a 90hr wet PPL.  When I was looking I wanted 3 things:

1. Fuel injection
2. Manual Gear
3. Autopilot

A $50k budget puts you in range of a well equipped IFR capable C.

[eman1200]

F.

[201er]

Any of those 3. I think it’s going to come down to more of which of those you can find the best specimen of for the money.

[irishpilot]

Range on a stock C or E is a bit limiting when trying to fly long range XC (56 gal). Especially ROP. My old E model was fast and pretty cheap to operate, but Westbound was tough with winter headwinds.

If I was looking at those planes again, I'd be keen on finding one with GAMIs and a good engine management gauge. LOP these planes can extend time aloft and range.

On a separate note, I used my old E and now my Bravo for bi-weey commuting. That means dispatch rate and systems matter. If you plan on really flying a C/E/F across the country for anything other than pleasure, just go in with the mindset that those planes are fast but don't have things like O2, TKS, dual electrical, etc. If you are patient and can wait things out like icing, pop-up TStorms, etc. they will be awesome and meet your XC needs.

Lastly, if planning on long-distance XC routinely, I highly recommend getting your instrument rating, if you don't already have it. Do it in your plane.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

Soooo...

Question for Warren...

What are you going to use this fancy new 2U steed for?

 

Best regards,

-a-

[M20F-1968]

The first decision is whether this is a 3-4 year plane or a lifetime plane.  

The fuel injected engines  (E & F) will allow you to put in Gammi  injectors and run LOP  which I think is something you would want as a choice.   Also,  fuel injection  takes you away from the concern of carburetor ice.   The F  has 64 gallons fuel which is also a plus and with long-range tanks you can carry 94 gallons of fuel.   Running LOP  you get you many hours of nonstop flight.   At 100 ROP,  I have easily done seven hour legs carrying 94 gallons of fuel.   However,  what I have to say about the F is biased because my plan is really not an F but much closer to J as it is highly modified.   Nevertheless,  the F  will give you more room to grow should you want to hold onto the plane for a long time.   If you are looking to buy a vintage Mooney,  I would definitely buy  one with manual gear.   Recognize  that you will probably spend some real money getting it to where you want it to be.  How much,  and what maintenance and upgrades you do will only be apparent once you've decided on the airplane that you want to buy.   These are almost 50 year old machines and you will want to leave nothing to chance.  Thus, be sure to have a wad of AMU's in your pocket for security sake.  There really are no $50,000 airplanes.  That being said, the F is a great plane to fly as is initially, and plan upgrades and mods as your needs and budget evolves.

John Breda

[ArtVandelay]

I only had 150 hours when I bought my J. So with good transition training, you shouldn’t have a problem.


Tom

[Hank]

1 hour ago, irishpilot said:

Range on a stock C or E is a bit limiting when trying to fly long range XC (56 gal). Especially ROP. My old E model was fast and pretty cheap to operate, but Westbound was tough with winter headwinds.

Most of my longer XCs are more N-S, but speed and distance in my C are both pretty good. I can't complain about 148 KTAS, and I've flown 4:45 and landed with 1:15-1:20 left in the tanks (which are 52 gallons).

My one big E-W XC, from WV to WY and back, making more stops than needed due to traveling with friends in a 172, my groundspeed still averaged 129 knots westbound and 151 knots eastbound. Those were 3-hour or shorter Cessna legs; had I made fewer stops, both numbers would have been higher.

It's amazing how much stuff I can put in the Mooney! Being a shortbody, though, I run out of space before I run out of useful load.

With any Mooney, I strongly recommend transition training with a CFI who has a lot of Mooney experience, so you can learn the gotchas that are particular to our brand. As a 62-hour purchaser, I learned a lot during my 15 hours dual,  and a month later I hit 100 hiurs total time enroute to a MAPA PPP,  where I learned even more.

Just check carefully and buy a plane in good mechanical condition, that has flown regularly the past few years. Details like model, year and gear type are less important, but be aware that adding a GPS will cost 10 AMU or more depending on which one you want and if it's used or not.

[bonal]

Welcome Warren, you don't mention number of expected passengers if more than 1+1 most times you might want an F as you know the leg room is better in the back. However, we have never had a problem with 1+2 but then I'm only 5 10 which means my seat is quite a bit forward. Based on your budget I think your best bet is the C because you will be able to purchase the best version out on the market and still have some money saved for the always needed fixes that seem to come up with new to you airplanes. If you made those coast to coast trips in a 150 then any Mooney you pick will have much better range and speed. Personally I like the manual gear and flaps. And I know this may be disputed (normal for me) but I think the simple carburetor is more reliable than the fuel injection. Carb ice has never been an issue with our C. Also an o360 is less expensive to rebuild than an io360.

Good luck

[Hank]

17 minutes ago, bonal said:

If you made those coast to coast trips in a 150 then any Mooney you pick will have much better range and speed. Personally I like the manual gear and flaps. And I know this may be disputed (normal for me) but I think the simple carburetor is more reliable than the fuel injection. Carb ice has never been an issue with our C. Also an o360 is less expensive to rebuild than an io360.

Good luck

This is so true! I've had my C for 12 years now, and other than checking it after engine start, I'm not sure if I've ever used carb heat. No, wait, I turned it in once just before entering IMC with my CFII because the Carb Temp Gage was down below 5°C. Never had any carb ice, though. 

[carusoam]

Carb Ice?

I remember... once in 10 years.... Had to turn the carb heat on... solved that problem... 

Biggest ice problem my carbureted M20C had... water freezing On the fuel caps... hard to check fuel level on the ground when you can’t open the fuel cap... 

Something to consider... when flying at or near MGTW... you may want to use full power... full power and carb heat is less than full power w/o Carb heat... so expect cruise speed to be limited as well... with the carb heat on...

My carb ice experience came from flying beneath a low cloud deck.... we were escaping to the clear just 50 miles away, VFR...   the area of max RH is just below the cloud deck...   

Mooney flying helps make you a better weatherman...  

 

+1 on a higher level of instrumentation... carb heat is a good one... as is an engine monitor and fuel flow...

Best regards,

-a-

[gsxrpilot]

With a budget of $50K, the answer is C. 

You might get an E or F with that budget but you'll have to put another $20K to $40K just to get them to a condition you'd be happy to fly. 

Go find the best C you can for that $50K. Preferably one with an autopilot.

[bradp]

I’d either do C or E with that budget.  You don’t need gamis for lycoming Io 360s running lop btw.   And some folks have found success running the O 360 in economy mode.  
 

All this depends on your mission of course.   Weekend $101 hamburgers or cross country traveling? 

[chrisk]

For equally equipped planes, I would pick F, E, then C.  F gives a little more range and space.  E is a little faster.   But any will be 50 years old.  Condition and Avionics can be the deciding factor.   A working autopilot is a very nice feature to have.

[aviatoreb]

From the pre-J era, I like the E the best.  Fastest, nimblest, fuel infected was - still is - the latest and greatest.  A well equipped well kept E is a sweet spot in the pre-J in my opinion.

[Andy95W]

For simplicity (which translates to inexpensive ownership) you really can't beat an M20C with manual gear and hydraulic flaps.  Operating costs about the same as a 172 with 40 knots more speed.  And about the same acquisition cost, as well.

[gsxrpilot]

I went through this very same exercise in 2014. I had a $50K budget and was looking for an E. The E is the original Hot Rod Mooney. It can, with the right speed mods, be every bit as fast as a J. And since most of us use Mooneys as 2 place airplanes, (with the option for 4 people on short $100 hamburger runs), the E is a good size as well. But even back in 2014 I couldn't find a ready to fly, E for $50K.

An F is nice if you need to haul a load. It's got a little more room, and typically has the best useful load of any of the vintage Mooneys. But it's not as quick as an E or a J.

I took my $50K and went looking for an E. But the only E's available for that money, had original panels (old/tired/scatter shot arrangement), didn't have an autopilot or GPS, a tired engine, and needed work to bring up to something I'd really enjoy flying and traveling in. But back then, $50K would buy a very nice C. And since I'm a pilot and not a builder/mechanic, I opted to buy the best C I could find for my budget. 

I flew that C for two years and 400 trouble free hours. It was fast, with all the available speed mods, nice paint and interior, Stec 30/altitude hold autopilot, 530W GPS, ADSB,  etc, etc, etc. I still always wished it was an E. But a nice flying C was better for me than an E that needed work.

I don't think $50K would buy a similar C today, but it for sure won't buy an E or F.

[Browncbr1]

I’ll share my experience.  Ymmv. 

I have a family of 4 needing routine 350nm travel.  I bought a clean, unmolested 67F in 2015.  It was original shot gun panel with legacy radios, junky interior, but clean straight bones, manual gear and flaps with a 440hr engine run LOP and 150hr new top prop.   I paid $45k .  I also didn’t want to have much Hull value due to insurance with low time.

my approach was like John Breda mentioned.   I didn’t have the ability nor the desire to use high end avionics at that time, but knew that those things could be upgraded later if wanted.  I wanted to fly Vfr and eventually get IFR, but learn ground navaid IFR.  But I wanted safety first.

I invested 3amu and got a jpi 830 installed immediately and overhauled the fuel delivery system, dropped in finewire plugs and overhauled mags.  Converted generator to alternator.  No expense spared decision making on safety issues first year.   

Second year, realized how limiting Vfr cross country is so got my IFR on legacy equipment.  Realized cc imc without autopilot is tiring, so spent about 2.5amu and got a Brittain AP with altitude hold.  ~1.5amu spent on materials for a nice new interior to just make the whole experience better.   

Then I had a good year in business and dropped ~22amu on gtn, G5’s, panel makeover and other goodies like strikefinder, etc   Increasing Hull value on insurance by this time was mitigated by having accrued more time and ratings.

then water started to get in under my OEM cowl deck and decided to do the sloped windshield stc to mainly protect my investment in avionics  (3.3amu)

now that my plane is good to go for me, I’m left focusing on basic mx issues like needing gear pucks, tank patch, etc.  

HOWEVER; now I’m seriously considering selling and getting a twin Comanche to start that whole “upgrade over time” process again.  It’s a sickness.

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Browncbr1

[bonal]

I don't think $50K would buy a similar C today, but it for sure won't buy an E or F.

this is true in the current market unless one can find the mythical unicorn. The OP indicated a budget of 50k but does not mention if this leaves money for always needed issues  as time passes. And as so often happens with this kind of thread the op asked and then makes no effort to provide more information about the type of mission and loading requirements they are going to have basically no follow up at all.

[Browncbr1]

Perhaps a Friday afternoon tire kick post from the OP.   Maybe he will be back next week.  

[warrenehc]

Thank you all for the information. My mission is a combination of long XC (5-6 times a year) and regional flying. I want to get my instrument and commercial license in the plane as well. I’m looking to build my time over the next few years to be over 500 hr and be electable to some local job opportunities. This is to steer my career in a different direction for long term jobs.