Accident Metrics

[Yetti]

Except I was way off centerline.

[ArtVandelay]

Except I was way off centerline.

Altitude would have been useful, can you configure you camera to display GPS altitude?

[carusoam]

Nice Yetti energy management.

-a-

[Shadrach]

15 hours ago, Stephen said:

Problem is for normal, non-short field approaches, 80mph is your short-final speed, not a normal pattern base leg speed so you are turning at 90 not 80. Should have clarified the 100/90/80 are relatively my downwind/base/final speeds and over the numbers at 75. I find it works well.

I'm usually alone when flying landing with half tanks or less. That put's my F at a weight of around 2100lbs (or less). Using 2100lbs, the full flap, level stall speed is 54mph.  80mph is nearly 1.5*Vso (1.48) at that weight.  For years I have been advocating that folks learn the numbers by weight.  This is how people end up in a ditch on the other end of the runway.  There is no "use this number for this airplane" if you want to fly with any precision at all.   It depends on weight and configuration. The stall speed between 2100lbs and MGW is only about 8-10mph depending on configuration, which is no biggee.  It's the mutipliers that can quickly create an issue.  In my experience there is almost no reason to fly a VFR approach faster than 1.3*Vso, even that gives a lot of excess energy to lose as one is nearing the low drag environment of ground effect.   

These are the stall speeds in level flight at 2100lbs.  You would have to be pretty ham fisted and or distracted to stall from abeam the numbers to final. 

We are far better at screwing up a landing than stalling on approach.

[Shadrach]

On 10/5/2018 at 10:59 PM, Yetti said:

3 or 4 Mooney I can think of this year.

Could you link them?  I searched the NTSB database for stall, spin by make. The last Mooney stall/spin on approach I could find occured in Olney, TX in 08/04/2004 and occurred during a left 360 on final.  I must assume the poor pilot was high or fast or both.  It was number 9 on the list of stall/spin accidents by date. The first for occurred after botched landings during poorly executed go around. 

Some pilots like to suggest that all airplanes fly the same.  They certainly are more similar than different, especially in cruise. But not all airplanes crash under the same circumstances.  There are loads of recent approach stall/spin accidents in the database, but none that I found were Mooneys.  The Nall report is a great tool for assessing the state of GA, it does little to tell our community where we ought to focus our efforts to improve.  It does not really need to though, as anyone with a shred of awareness of our record knows that we tend to overshoot due to poor speed and altitude management and then FUBAR the recovery. The ones that merely result in a little off-road adventure probably don't even get reported.

 

 

Edited October 10, 2018 by Shadrach

[steingar]

To be honest, an overshoot beats stall/spin.  I think I would err on the side of too much energy than too little.  I suspect you all have far more currency and are better for it than I, but this seems like a pretty good recipe for those of us on the less than perfect side of things.

[Yetti]

4 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Altitude would have been useful, can you configure you camera to display GPS altitude?

unfortunately no.  The Sony Action cams don't do altitude.

But the phone running droidEFB does

For the most part the landing starts at TAP.   1300 for this field.   Line up .8 nm from the runway which is about 1/3 under the wing.  It's a smooth constant descent from TAP.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Yetti

[Yetti]

@ShadrachThis one

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/victims-of-eastern-oregon-plane-crash-identified/277-583027053

This one

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=215090

This one

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20180802X34004

I don't think the formal reports are out yet, so may not showing up in your data.

[Shadrach]

20 minutes ago, Yetti said:

@ShadrachThis one

https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/victims-of-eastern-oregon-plane-crash-identified/277-583027053

This one

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=215090

This one

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20180802X34004

I don't think the formal reports are out yet, so may not showing up in your data.

Thanks. The  last crash listed fits the approach stall/spin scenario. The second is too high, too fast, mishandled go around. The first has very little info. All tragic...

[Yetti]

The first one I looked up the street intersection and it would fit the landing phase stall spin.   All tragic and sad.

[201er]

6 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 For years I have been advocating that folks learn the numbers by weight. 

Agreed. But it’s even simpler with an AOA indicator. Works in the turns too.

[Shadrach]

16 hours ago, 201er said:

Agreed. But it’s even simpler with an AOA indicator. Works in the turns too.

No argument here. I'm an advocate.  Indeed it's a nice thing to have. Especially for short field work.  I also think that many low level pattern stalls are accelerated. I think the scenario is abrupt. An AOA will reduce pattern accidents, but sadly there will still be those that manage to overcome the additional advantage...