Downsizing C340 driver

[aviatoreb]

Quote: jetdriven

Wake up  RJ, US jobs have been going overseas for decades, since the GOP mantra of lowering corporate taxes, liability, and breaking the back of labor is working so well.  Do you have a source for this "Dreamliner jobs to China" garbage? You DO know that Boeing bought Vought, based in SC, and promptly busted the union, cut the wage in half to get them to agree to a second assembly shift for the 787.  Then they went to the IAM in Seattle and demanded a 50% wage cut.  How do I know all this?  I watch more than Fox news and I have a friend who flies the Dreamliner.  Google it.  This is my industry. 

I suppose everyone making 5$ an hour, and no unions,  can finally please the super wealthy.  Who are catered to (and financed by) Republicans like the Koch brothers.  When we are tearing down teacher's unions to finance 122 million in tax breaks for Wisconsin, we have a problem. 

Basic Keynesian economics says the government must spend to stimulate the "sick" economy and get it out of the ditch. Anyone who has taken Ecnonmics 101 would know this.   "Free market" is what happened when Wall Street blew up the entire world financial system because they ran amok.  GOP lawmakers dismantled the Glass-Stegal act piece by piece to allow it to happen. 

How many hours did you block last year?  3 years ago? 6$ AVGAS getting you down? Must be "Obamanomics".  Blame him. 

Somebody lock this thread. I have said my part.  It is meaningless.  

 

 

[FlyFstr]

Rsmith it looks like your thread got hijacked..... so anyway what where you asking about?....LOL

[John Pleisse]

Rsmith....there are several nice lowtime 201's out there. There are also (I know you may not want to go here, but......) a few nicely refurbished pre J's out there with fresh everything that have sat for a while....especially a few nice C models. For a J, I would take your high time engine idea a step further. The avionics, engine, prop, and cosmetic refurbishment options are so good these days, if you have the biz cash flow to dress up an old girl...even with down time considered, I'd do it. Airframe $60k wholesale...improvements to $150k...sec 179 most of it.

 

[DaV8or]

Oh boy! Politics! Next we'll do religion. Basically, the Repulicans are lying garbage and the Democrats are full of crap. Unfortunately, we're stuck with this crappy garbage. We'll have to make the best of it. The Free Market if left to it's own devices would turn the planet into a smoking wreckage and a strong, unionized Central Government would turn the planet into a stagnant gullag, much like Orwell's 1984. What's needed is a melding, or moderation of the two positions, but times are tough now and only radical ideas prevail in tough times. We are rapidly becoming two Americas with little tolerance for one another. If we lose all common ground, maybe we will have to settle it with a war between the states. It's been a while now and maybe we have forgotten how fun that was.

[FlyFstr]

Re: Next we'll do religion

You're correct. At this point it would take divine intervention to bring this thread back where it belongs...smile.

rsmith probably read all this stuff and decided to get a Cirrus, Piper or Cessna. 

[John Pleisse]

OK...a rabbi, a priest and Sammy Davis Jr. all walk into a strip club.............

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: jetdriven

Wake up  RJ, US jobs have been going overseas for decades, since the GOP mantra of lowering corporate taxes, liability, and breaking the back of labor is working so well.

2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world behind Japan, I believe.  I really don't see where the GOP has lowered the corporate tax rate significantly.  Does extra liability in absolutely frivolous lawsuits help keep labor when it takes an entire company out of business?

Do you have a source for this "Dreamliner jobs to China" garbage? You DO know that Boeing bought Vought, based in SC, and promptly busted the union, cut the wage in half to get them to agree to a second assembly shift for the 787.  Then they went to the IAM in Seattle and demanded a 50% wage cut.  How do I know all this?  I watch more than Fox news and I have a friend who flies the Dreamliner.  Google it.  This is my industry. 

I suppose everyone making 5$ an hour, and no unions,  can finally please the super wealthy.  Who are catered to (and financed by) Republicans like the Koch brothers.  When we are tearing down teacher's unions to finance 122 million in tax breaks for Wisconsin, we have a problem. 

Wasn't the problem more wrapped up in an entire budget crisis instead of "tax breaks"?  Bad economy = lower revenues.

Basic Keynesian economics says the government must spend to stimulate the "sick" economy and get it out of the ditch. Anyone who has taken Ecnonmics 101 would know this.   "Free market" is what happened when Wall Street blew up the entire world financial system because they ran amok.  GOP lawmakers dismantled the Glass-Stegal act piece by piece to allow it to happen.

What if, like me, you're not convinced on the Keynesian theory? - because it's wrong in the long term.  Wall Street wasn't acting as a free market.  They directly lobbied Congress to get what they wanted.

How many hours did you block last year?  3 years ago? 6$ AVGAS getting you down? Must be "Obamanomics".  Blame him. 

Somebody lock this thread. I have said my part.  It is meaningless.  

[scottfromiowa]

I LIKE the idea of a run out '84 J that you can put in avionics you want and a new interior and engine.  Paint when you want.  Split/removeable rear seats are what I long for...This is like when my family gets together at X-mas without the volume.  Maybe someone can upload a shot of themselves in their underwear...

[FlyFstr]

Re: Split/removeable rear seats are what I long for

Scottfromiowa - can you please comment on why the non-split seats are not appreciated? I assume that the split movable just make it easier to load and unload stuff correct?

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: FlyFstr

Re: Split/removeable rear seats are what I long for

Scottfromiowa - can you please comment on why the non-split seats are not appreciated? I assume that the split movable just make it easier to load and unload stuff correct?

[jetdriven]

Dont forget a 1984 model hasnt much more to offer than a runout 1978 model except those seatbacks, and factor in the idea you are paying an extra ten grand for them.

[scottfromiowa]

My mission is flying to northern Wisconsin or south to Arkansas for pleasure.  I bird hunt and golf.  A collapsable crate will fit in back seat (fixed bench) and so will a couple golf bags...but to be able to easily remove the seats and lay down clubs/fit two kennels in back would be worth the $10 grand along with one piece belly and newer airframe to me.  The extra length over my M20E short body in the J would help make my mission easier...and yes I like the aesthetics of the split seats too, but primarily the function.  The sculped wing tips are also a cosmetic improvement that I really like the look over my vintage plane and the earlier J models.

[rsmith]

Sorry for igniting the powderkeg but you can see how bitter and divided the country is.  I dont see things getting better no matter who's in office. I know a lot of you dont want to add in politics but to make informed decisions we need to be honest about what the future will be for general aviation.

That said the talking turkey prices are way lower than you guys think. I've been looking at several decent mid 80's 201's in the "we're ready to deal" range from $55-75k. I've been flying IFR for 35 years and dont care about fancy avionics. I've seen a lot of people dump a lot of money in their panels over the years only to have it become obsolete and worthless. As long as I have 2 decent navcoms and a portable gps I can go anywhere I need to go. As far as resale goes I think the planes next mission will be as a container for Budwieser. But for the meantime I plan to flog it along for the least money I can. At least this is what Mooney's used to be about. Any one remember "Norm the Mooney Miser" he had the right ideas.

Any coments on the long range tank mods or ski tubes? I dont plan on hauling skis but from time to time have longer items to take.

[David Mazer]

Ski tubes?  Has anyone installed one in a Mooney?  I thought it was a joke but here is a 337 for a Bonanza ski tube installation.

[KSMooniac]

I've taken skis in my J with them angled diagonally over the back seat and it worked fine that way.  I lashed them down to secure them just in case I hit turbulence.  (181 cm length)  I think with the back seat folded down they would lie flat very easily, too.

Long range tank mod adds more flexibility and is a nice mod, but not exactly cheap either.  If you are willing to skip fuel stops and stay aloft for 7+ hours at a time, then it might make sense.  I've done 6 hours non-stop in my J (LOP) and still had 15 gallons left in my stock tanks.  I wouldn't consider it unless the seats had been rebuilt with modern multi-density memory foam cushions, otherwise a trip of any length might be too painful!

[The-sky-captain]

I use my Mooney a lot for traveling to the NM and CO mountains to board, bike and climb quite a bit. The space gets tight when the bike goes in but I can make it work with a little creative engineering. The board and climbing gear is no problem at all.

As for staying aloft large amounts of time the best I can usually do is about 5 hours before bailing. I also enjoy hitting up the small town airports along the way for my fuel stops that otherwise I would never get to visit.

[rsmith]

Quote: Mazerbase

Ski tubes?  Has anyone installed one in a Mooney?  I thought it was a joke but here is a 337 for a Bonanza ski tube installation.

[Cris]

I've owned a 78' J, 81' J, as well as an 84' J. Essentially there is little differance between the 81' & 84' except for the one piece belly & split seats as both have the sculpted wing tips. Unless you are doing owner assisted annuals I never seemed to get  a price break on an annual with the one piece belly. However the removable seats were very important for me & is an option I would not do without. The later Mooneys have a higher gross weight/payload & in general are faster. Range on a J is very good with the optimum about 12K without O2. I flew to Europe once round trip in the 78' with standard tanks. In addition I regularly flew to DesMoines from NJ and found that to be about the max that I could comfortably fly landing just once in DesMoines with minimum reserves. East bound was never an issue so long range tanks are really a function of your mission profile. Check the Monroy aviation site for specifics on the long range tanks. Jose' does a great job. Ski tubes were installed in many Mooney's years ago so there must be an STC somewhere for them. With the shorter skis today that option may be of limited use. I used to put my skis resting on the hat rack shelf without an issue and they were the longer version skis. When purchasing the rule that I try to follow is that what ever I buy I will sell at some point so to protect the value I try to look at what someone might want some years down the road. I learned this the hard way with homes that I have owned. About every five years or so a typical house needs an update. If you sell say eight years out the buyer will deduct the cost to freshen it up. So why not invest at the five year point & enjoy it yourself for a few years? With that said I recently bought an Eagle with steam guages & a simple Stec 30/Alt hold autopilot but with decent avioncs- GMX200/GDL69, KN62, KLN 94 but no waas.  It was a relative bargain as no one wanted it without the typical 430/530 Waas. To me the 340 Hr A/F, 310 HP STC & both alternator/vacume backups had much more value than the waas. After all one can add avionics but you can't decrease A/F time.  I am based at Atlantic City with outstanding ILS approaches so I really have no use for waas and most places I go have lower minimums with the ILS/VOR. I do know however that when I sell most buyers will undoubtedly deduct for not having this option. In terms of autopilots the KFC200 is generally more reliable IMHO than the KFC150 due to the sensors in the KFC150 indicating faults when often there are none. But do a search on this site for opionions. Aviation Consumer did a whole article about older used autopilots recently which you might find valuble. I found the Stec30/alt to be all that I need & if you find a Mooney with an Stec 30 & alt hold you may be quite happy although it does not have the full capability of the KFC200/150 but also requires virtually no maintenance. Stec also has got a promo going on if you want to upgrade to the Stec 55X which is similar to the King units. If you don't have ANR headsets like the Bose A20 that would be the first thing I'd get coming out of your C340 as you will be amazed at the high ambient noise of an older Mooney with the 4 cyl engine front & center not to mention the older audio panels. BTW I also bought my 81' M20J from Henry Weber albeit a few years after you purchased yours. Happy Hunting & consider bringing your new aquisition to the MAPA PPP in Atlantic City in Sept/Oct & I'll meet you there!! Cris      

[FlyFstr]

RE: "As far as resale goes I think the planes next mission will be as a container for Budwieser."

Frankly it's sad but that's how I think. Back in the early 80's I sold my airplane for about what I paid for it. Not too bad considering I had some fun and in comparison, my car lost value.

Then as time went by, the airplanes were appreciating as an investment because they weren't building them for a while.

Then they started going down it price. And this has continued. The reality is, the pilot demographics just aren't what they used to be. 

 

[rsmith]

Finally sold my 340 or more like gave it away. 23 years and 3000 hours was hard to say goodby to. Have several Mooneys I'm looking at. Like me with selling the 340 the difference between the asking price of these planes and what the seller will take is amazing. I made several offers that I would have been embarresed to make a few years ago. The brokers tell me I'm real close on several.

[ToddDPT]

I know it is somewhat bitter-sweet to have to sell the 340, but now it gets fun looking for your 201!  Good luck on your pursuit!

[Piloto]

Congratulations on your C340 sale. As they say happiest moments are when you buy it and when you sell it. Overall cost ratio between a C340 and a 201 could easily be 3 to 1 and 4 to 1 is not unrealistic. Not including longer down times for the C340 and higher hangar costs. I have an 82 201 and found it to be cost competitive with the airlines even when just flying myself.

As for what to look on a 80's vintage Mooney I would prioritize on corrosion, specially if it was not hangared. Check for corrosion on the mains wheel well, center spar cap splice and the cabin tubing structure. Corrosion formation is independent of hours flown but exposure to the environment, particularly rain.

My 82 201 never had a fuel leak. While I have seen others of the same vintage with leaks. Leaks are due to sealant failure. The sealant like any rubber is subject to heat degradation that causes the sealant to crack. You see the same effect on car dashboards, seats and window seals. If the plane has been kept in a hangar all its life the wing temperature has been kept relativel low to prevent sealant degradation thus leaks. When the plane is stored outside the tanks should be at least half full to keep the temperature down. Otherwise the temps can go over 150F in the summer and start baking the sealant.

A 1980's vintage Mooney will have the Silver Crown line of King radios. This is a good line that can be serviced by most avionics shops. The most common problem with them are the displays. But most shops can fix them quickly.

BTW you are not the only one I have seen transitioning from twin to single. I was rescuing my Aerostas hangar neighbor on 1/3 of his flights because something would break on his plane. He end up with an Ovation a smaller hangar, a lower insurance cost and lower operating costs.

José

 

[rsmith]

One of my main concerns is the tubing rust issue. I know Mooney went from zink chrome to epoxy in 87  has there been a major problem with 80's 201's with corrosion? I read one article that said there could be a problem with the upper tubing also due to condensation in the headliner area.

[KSMooniac]

I don't think it is a major problem with any Mooney, generally speaking, but something that should be checked thoroughly during a pre-buy inspection.  Just another item on the list, especially if the plane has lived outside and/or has leaky side windows.

[Bennett]

I've had two Mooneys, a 231 and 201. Both had a bit of mild corrosion on the side tubing - the overhead tubes were fine in both instances.  The 231's corrosion came from the old yellow insulation Mooney used up until some date - I believe in the 80s, while the 201's corrosion came from a leaking window (the aircraft was tied down).  LASAR did the repairs in both cases, and I couldn't be more pleased with their workmanship, and their testing of all the tubes. The tubes themselves were in relatively good shape, except for the surface corrosion which was removed, and the tubes resealed and painted.  I have seen photos of tubes that were rusted through, and this would be a much greater problem. Even mild corrosion removal is time consuming, and it would be prudent to obtain an estimate before deciding upon an aircraft that shows some corrosion.  If the purchase price is adjusted for these costs, I would not hesitate buying an otherwise good aircraft.