1966 M20E Super 21 Ground Up Remodel

[Hector]

I agree with you. I would never post my Mooney for sale here. I’ll just call up one of those people who have called me over the years begging to sell her to them.

Posting a Mooney for sale here is like taking a pig to sale at the auction. “She’s too fat”, “She’s too old”, “Her belly is dragging on the ground” — and no matter what you do to your plane, to those critics, it’s like putting lipstick on that pig.

People don’t appreciate the effort (and $) we put into these updated planes. Why should they? They say they’re happy with their pig. Oink




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One way to fix this is to mimic what other websites do. If you post something in the “for sale” section, not commentary is allowed regarding the value of the item. You could go one step further and allow no commentary of any kind. All communication must be direct with seller.


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[rbridges]

It's a shame it gets ugly sometimes because I like having constructive feedback as buyer or seller.  

[GH3]

I am new here and have flown most of my hours, including instrument training, in a Cirrus.  But for cost reasons I am considering the purchase of an older Mooney E21, F or J instead of a Cirrus and then upgrading the panel.  How much did it cost to do this panel upgrade, ballpark?  Anyone know?  

[TWinter]

34 minutes ago, GH3 said:

I am new here and have flown most of my hours, including instrument training, in a Cirrus.  But for cost reasons I am considering the purchase of an older Mooney E21, F or J instead of a Cirrus and then upgrading the panel.  How much did it cost to do this panel upgrade, ballpark?  Anyone know?  

Just a glance and quick off the top of my head I can see $80k+. I've got most of the same or near equal. I've tried to get pricing on my new project and it took no time for the price quotes to be north of $60k and I have not even included many items such as GDL88, remote audio and so on...

I suggest buying something someone has already opened their checkbook to. I didn't realize how much I had tied up in my E until I started to get quotes to get the Comanche near my Mooney  level...Has really made me reconsider selling the Mooney and trying to work two planes into my monthly budget. Avionics is an EXPENSIVE upgrade, especially glass.

-Tom

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, GH3 said:

I am new here and have flown most of my hours, including instrument training, in a Cirrus.  But for cost reasons I am considering the purchase of an older Mooney E21, F or J instead of a Cirrus and then upgrading the panel.  How much did it cost to do this panel upgrade, ballpark?  Anyone know?  

Depends on what you want/need. Also, keeping an eye on promotions and rebates will lower the cost considerably as well. As well, consolidating the upgrades into as few of steps as needed will lower the cost.

These prices were at different times. Like the 60-2. That was the installed price in 1998 with autotrim. Be more expensive today (>$20k). The $9,500 for the GTN was after a sizeable rebate and an aggressive discount by the shop. I believe the L-3 9000+ is cheaper now. The audio panel includes installation. The JPI's $4,500 was an upgrade from a 830, so a good chunk of labor was not needed. The Aspens were rebated and I got a really big discount on the MFD from the Aspen regional sales manager (price is the installed price).

 

Edited August 20, 2018 by Marauder

[GH3]

Nice panel and  great information.  Thanks.   I would hope that with Dynon Skyview components for certified aircraft a similar retrofit could be done less expensively today.

[KRviator]

Even if it is a bit more expensive, the Skyview is marvelous to fly behind. I have one of the Classic units in the RV-9, and would have no hesitation in trying to get a pair installed in a Mooney.

[GH3]

It is my understanding that Dynon's prices for certified aircraft are the same as they are for experimental aircraft.  If that is the case, it looks like you could install a pretty nice panel for a lot less than $70-80k. 

[steingar]

Had I the money to burn I would readily consider one of these restored aircraft.  Like someone said, it costs a lot more to actually put the stuff in then buy it.  I'd rather buy a restored aircraft that a new one.

[rbridges]

On 8/21/2018 at 3:19 AM, KRviator said:

Even if it is a bit more expensive, the Skyview is marvelous to fly behind. I have one of the Classic units in the RV-9, and would have no hesitation in trying to get a pair installed in a Mooney.

I'm having an Aspen Pro installed this week.  I've been waiting for the Dynon, and I know it's soon, but I haven't seen anything for approval for Mooneys.  

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, rbridges said:

I'm having an Aspen Pro installed this week.  I've been waiting for the Dynon, and I know it's soon, but I haven't seen anything for approval for Mooneys.  

You'll love it.

[Shadrach]

That's a beautiful E.  I like everything about the interior except the flap handle (takes a sleek design and turns it into something clunky that looks to have been made in a wood shop class). I hope it brings a nice offer, but I'll be shocked if it brings 6 figures.  

Edited August 23, 2018 by Shadrach

[rbridges]

20 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

You'll love it.

I was trying to mimic your panel to an extent, but the local FSDO may give me trouble using a G5 as a backup.

[GH3]

I spoke with Dynon Tuesday and was told they expect to have the STC for M20s by the end of the year.

[Oldguy]

40 minutes ago, rbridges said:

I was trying to mimic your panel to an extent, but the local FSDO may give me trouble using a G5 as a backup.

I am upgrading my panel in two phases and am copying Paul's as well but used a Sandia Quattro 340 in place of his G5. @Alan Fox was very helpful in providing avionics at significant savings.

[KRviator]

18 hours ago, rbridges said:

I'm having an Aspen Pro installed this week.  I've been waiting for the Dynon, and I know it's soon, but I haven't seen anything for approval for Mooneys.  

I got the email from Dynon today. Expecting the STC to be approved Q4 2018 for the basic package and Q2 2019 for some enhanced features, maybe autopilot? Hopefully. Looks like the AML will be kept updated here.

The only thing I'd add is that it is the SkyView HDX that'll be certified, not the AFS line pictured in GH3's post above.

Edited August 24, 2018 by KRviator

[jafine21]

I contacted the seller, I think I know why it is still for sale .... seems the price is so firm you can’t even look at it unless you agree to the price first. 

 

Too bad this airplane is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. 

[Marauder]

I contacted the seller, I think I know why it is still for sale .... seems the price is so firm you can’t even look at it unless you agree to the price first. 
 
Too bad this airplane is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. 

He has a lot invested in the plane and I think he is trying to find someone who understands the costs and can appreciate his price point. I do think it is funny when people think the plane is overpriced and will buy a fixer-upper and spend as much bringing it up to this standard.

I hope he/she gets their price. It makes it easier for those of us who overspent on their planes. If the rest of the plane has been maintained to the level spent on the avionics, paint & interior, I would rather buy a plane at this price point, rather than going after a project.


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[Marauder]

I contacted the seller, I think I know why it is still for sale .... seems the price is so firm you can’t even look at it unless you agree to the price first. 
 
Too bad this airplane is pretty much exactly what I was looking for. 

BTW — did you check the VRef on this plane? I know mine comes in at $105k.


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[carusoam]

Welcome aboard Jafine.

Have no fear, that plane is exactly what a lot of us are looking for...

An M20E makes a great retirement plane.  Really low operations costs compared to many other planes...

The ad may be a bit misleading though.   The instrument panel is for sale at the given price.  They throw in the M20E that is mounted to the panel.  

The economy is too strong for deep bargains.  It is Unknown how long this condition can last... it has been a decade of climbing out of the financial depths... 10 years ago this week!

Best regards,

-a-

[HRM]

On 8/11/2018 at 10:44 AM, Bob_Belville said:

Without a doubt. Unless one values a Johnson Bar...

I was going to comment that the only thing wrong with this E is electric gear.

[gsxrpilot]

If this is EXACTLY the E one is looking for, then the price would be close to right. I'm sure you can't upgrade it to this level for the asking price.  But for that asking price, it would have to be EXACTLY what I was looking for. And while it's nice, there are too many things I'd do just a little differently.

[HRM]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

If this is EXACTLY the E one is looking for, then the price would be close to right. I'm sure you can't upgrade it to this level for the asking price.  But for that asking price, it would have to be EXACTLY what I was looking for. And while it's nice, there are too many things I'd do just a little differently.

Agreed. I have said that should I ever attain 1-percenter wealth I would fly The Mistress out to Kerrville with a list of what I wanted done. This plane comes close to my fantasy, but off in too many ways for me to sell mine and buy it.

[jafine21]

Just to be clear I didn’t say the plane is overpriced, but I think one should be entitled to check it out before agreeing to pay the stated price.

[Marauder]

Just to be clear I didn’t say the plane is overpriced, but I think one should be entitled to check it out before agreeing to pay the stated price.

I suspect the owner is tired of tire kickers. Sure, people can negotiate but by setting that gaunlet, it is an easy way to eliminate a group of potential buyers who don’t have the financial means to buy it.

Has anyone said to the owner “based on what I see, it seems to be a fair price”? If the VRef is within the correct range, I’d be pissed if someone showed up to look at my plane and said to me “would you take $50k?”.

He is looking for a buyer who really knows how much he has invested in the plane and is willing to consider the price point. It doesn’t mean he will get it, but there are buyers out there that know what level of investment this guy made. Or the other group; “ohhhh this plane is so shiny!!”


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