Help me spend some money

[skydvrboy]

As you will see, my plane has been somewhat neglected over the years and is in need of some repairs and upgrades.  Below is a list of the things I think need to be done and why, along with a cost estimate.  I'd like the group to help me prioritize these items so as I have the money, I can begin knocking them off the list.  Also, if you see something else that needs taken care of, let me know what, why, how much and where you would rank it.  

Obviously, this is a money constrained exercise or I would just do them all right now, so please, no suggestions that I need to replace my entire panel with glass gauges or other high-end options.  I'm looking for utility and function, not pretty and flashy.

New tire #1, this one has pretty well reached it's end of life, so I have already purchased the replacement.  No threads are showing, but it looks like this most of the way around. $160 retread tire and airstop tube (parts only).

New tire #2, still showing tread all the way around.  $160 retread tire and airstop tube (parts only).

 

Landing gear shock discs.  A&P says these are at or just slightly better than minimum spec to replace.  Managed to zoom in on date code... 3/77.  Yeah, I think their due. $1,199 for all 11 (parts only).

Good quality headset.  Here are the current headsets I have to choose from.  The ASA sounds the best, DC is a single plug military with adapter, can't recall the other brand, but the cord has metal showing in places.  $380 Quiet Technologies Halo

Repaint.  Probably a pipe dream at this point.  I was quoted $14 AMU for a complete strip and paint from a shop with a great reputation.  Would be cheaper for partial repaint, but would never match.

Door seal, coming off in spots, cracked in spots.  May be the source of minor CO (50 ppm or less, 0 in cruise) entering the plane (yes, I have a Sensorcon thanks to DanM20C)  $40 for MD gasket, adhesive, & solvent

Interior, as you probably saw in some of the other pictures, the interior plastics are warped, cracked, and have scrapes in the paint.  As for cost, no idea on this one, from $15 for a can of spray paint up to astronomical for a pro interior rehab.

Panel remove and paint, the paint is peeling off the panel in a few places.  I could try to mask it off and paint it, but I'm afraid the surface prep would be insufficient and I'd be right back where I am now.  Materials would be inexpensive, but I think the labor involved would make this a long project.

ADSB install.  I think the FBO had a Stratus put in their rental plane for around $3,000 and were quoted $500 more for in capability.  

FYI, the Apollo GPS back light is dead, no idea on cost to fix.

Engine monitor, probably an Insight G2, $1900 (parts only) right below the CDI.

Well, that's what I have on the list.  Thoughts?

Edited May 18, 2018 by skydvrboy
forgot one

[gsxrpilot]

This is something I'm constantly thinking about as well. I'm on my second Mooney and granted, it's a bit further ahead of where yours is, but it's still got a long way to go. So I've been keeping and reordering my own list for about four years now and slowly chipping away at it. So here's what I'd do.

1. Engine monitor - G2 is a great choice. This will pay benefits from the very first flight forward saving you money on fuel, saving money on maintenance, and prolonging your engine life. 
2. Tire - I've seen worse, and you can probably get a few more hours out of the one you have, but it's about due. And doing it soon will be cheaper than being stranded somewhere with a flat.
3. Headset - your hearing is only getting worse every time you fly, so protect it and raise the enjoyment level of every flight. I've been wearing QT Halo's for five years and love them.
4. Door seal - cheap, easy, get it done. That and the headset will help protect your hearing starting with the first day.

The next few items are in no particular order for me... Gear pucks, ADSB, GPS. All good to do, but a toss up for me.

Paint and interior would be the very last for me. In fact, I'd upgrade the whole panel and probably do a bunch of other stuff before paint and interior. But that's just me.

The most important thing is to fly it. Don't let it sit while you turn it into your dream airplane. Fly it.

Just my $0.02

 

[Igor_U]

Interesting list of upgrades! I’ve been there, in a past and I still have upgrades I need to do (panel, avionics) so I constantly make my own list…

I’d be interested to know if everything will be done by a shop or you do owner assisted maintenance and annuals; that would reduce the cost help to do few things you might want to do.

 

Here are my thoughts on upgrades and (maybe) the order you should do it:

 

Headsets: my wife loves Quiet Halo’s; it doesn’t mess her hear, light weight and they have great noise reduction.

Engine monitor: If you can do work yourself (I’ve installed mine), I would go with Primary instrument replacement like EI CGR30P (you’ll need fuel gages like Aerospace Logic) or JDP that many people love here. I chose EI as it fits into the 3-1/8” instrument hole, great support and price. This would delete bunch of old engine instruments out of the panel, the rotten oil and fuel pressure lines out of the cockpit etc; not to mention ability to monitor your engine health, fly LOP and so on. Go with one you like or has a rebate at the moment.

Puck and tires: don’t do that before annual time. You can save money and do it when plane is already on jacks and would reduce downtime. I installed pucks myself during annual while I was practicing using neat hydraulic tool I’ve rented before my IA showed in my hangar. He was surprised how easy it was to use and so it once the plane is on the jacks and trailing links are off. Tool was rented from Hangar Tool box (or something) but I understand he’s out of business now.

Door seal is easy and I believe can be done by owner.

ADSB: Startus is a good choice. Is the price quoted ($3000 installed) correct? I see them for sale for $3000 and then there should be at least 10h of install labor.

Interior: Not difficult to do using plastic paint system like SEM after you repair cracks in panels or replace some (Plane Plastic has them). I’ve wrapped mine in Ultraleather and replaced headliner as well. Everything really started with

getting 201 side windows before the paint job… long story $$$.

You could replace Aluminum panel with new one if you go with primary engine monitor. It is a lot of labor but could be done. Another option is to remove the existing panel(s) and refinish it if you are not changing arrangement and instruments.

 

I would classify above upgrades as less expensive ones and something that could be done over a year or two especially if you’d do some work yourself.

 

Paint job and new avionics would be much more expensive then list above. Do your research. Depending where you live, flying few states out can reduce the cost significantly. At the time I’ve done mine (11y ago!) great shop at my field wanted stupid money as they were busy with FedEx Caravans and new Kodiaks. I found a great shop in NV and saved 35-40%.

 

Good luck.

[Guest]

The tire first, Air Hawk tires are the lowest quality out there.  One sharp stone and you’ve got a flat.

Door seal is cheap and easy from Lowe’s Aviation isle.

You can add a Headsets Inc ANR module with new cords, if you can do basic soldering, they work well.

Clarence

[Hank]

Keep the Halos. Been using mine since 2009. Try the silicone tips, tbey fit better, don't ooze out, are easy to clean and last forever. Foam tips are the opposite of each of these.

Wait for annual or not, but do replace the pucks while the plane is already jacked up for the tires. I've heard that it's possible to change the main pucks by using the wejght of the plane to compress them, but this won't work for the nose pucks. Some CBs on here have designed and built nose puck tools, search and you may find them.

Good luck, have fun and fly her a lot!

[DonMuncy]

Look at a Stratux, as opposed to Stratus. Much cheaper. Same function.

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

I took your post and tried to address each item as you presented them. Tire should be #1. Although my esteemed colleague M20Doc doesn't appear to like McCreay AirHawks, I have had good success with them. Don't cheap out on the tube. Michelin Air Stop is the way to go.

I would hold off on the tire for #2

 

Landing gear shock discs.  As my esteemed colleague Hank recommends, I would wait for your annual. The plane will be up on jacks and that would be the right time to change them out. You will be surprised at the improved ride.

I would find the best in the pile and stick with it. Save your money.

Repaint.  What is going on with the new metal? Why were those skins replaced? I would certainly paint or wax those sections to avoid corrosion.

I would certain replace the seal. I used this: https://www.walmart.com/ip/M-D-Building-Products-1025-All-Climate-Auto-and-Marine-17-Feet-Weather-Seal-Strip-Black/808384995?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=8925&adid=22222222222075454926&wmlspartner=wmtlabs&wl0=e&wl1=o&wl2=c&wl3=83219286535563&wl4=pla-4586818914245297&wl12=808384995_10000008803&wl14=M-D 1025 weather strip&veh=sem&msclkid=7bd51c6a09ed138bd6ed4694d28855a6

 

Interior: It looks like you are missing pieces around the window. Can you post more pictures? I had my interior redone by Bruce Jaegar. Part of that process was repainting the plastic that remained. I can talk you through the process. The SEM paints are good for this.

Panel remove and paint, the paint is peeling off the panel in a few places.  I could try to mask it off and paint it, but I'm afraid the surface prep would be insufficient and I'd be right back where I am now.  Materials would be inexpensive, but I think the labor involved would make this a long project.

ADSB install.  You will need something.

FIx avionics that you need and are broke.

Engine monitor - really should be high on your list.

Well, that's what I have on the list.  Thoughts?

 

Edited May 18, 2018 by Marauder

[Oldguy]

8 hours ago, skydvrboy said:

As you will see, my plane has been somewhat neglected over the years and is in need of some repairs and upgrades.  Below is a list of the things I think need to be done and why, along with a cost estimate.  I'd like the group to help me prioritize these items so as I have the money, I can begin knocking them off the list.  Also, if you see something else that needs taken care of, let me know what, why, how much and where you would rank it.  

Obviously, this is a money constrained exercise or I would just do them all right now, so please, no suggestions that I need to replace my entire panel with glass gauges or other high-end options.  I'm looking for utility and function, not pretty and flashy.

New tire #1, this one has pretty well reached it's end of life, so I have already purchased the replacement.  No threads are showing, but it looks like this most of the way around. $160 retread tire and airstop tube (parts only).

New tire #2, still showing tread all the way around.  $160 retread tire and airstop tube (parts only).

 

Landing gear shock discs.  A&P says these are at or just slightly better than minimum spec to replace.  Managed to zoom in on date code... 3/77.  Yeah, I think their due. $1,199 for all 11 (parts only).

Good quality headset.  Here are the current headsets I have to choose from.  The ASA sounds the best, DC is a single plug military with adapter, can't recall the other brand, but the cord has metal showing in places.  $380 Quiet Technologies Halo

Repaint.  Probably a pipe dream at this point.  I was quoted $14 AMU for a complete strip and paint from a shop with a great reputation.  Would be cheaper for partial repaint, but would never match.

Door seal, coming off in spots, cracked in spots.  May be the source of minor CO (50 ppm or less, 0 in cruise) entering the plane (yes, I have a Sensorcon thanks to DanM20C)  $40 for MD gasket, adhesive, & solvent

Interior, as you probably saw in some of the other pictures, the interior plastics are warped, cracked, and have scrapes in the paint.  As for cost, no idea on this one, from $15 for a can of spray paint up to astronomical for a pro interior rehab.

Panel remove and paint, the paint is peeling off the panel in a few places.  I could try to mask it off and paint it, but I'm afraid the surface prep would be insufficient and I'd be right back where I am now.  Materials would be inexpensive, but I think the labor involved would make this a long project.

ADSB install.  I think the FBO had a Stratus put in their rental plane for around $3,000 and were quoted $500 more for in capability.  

FYI, the Apollo GPS back light is dead, no idea on cost to fix.

Engine monitor, probably an Insight G2, $1900 (parts only) right below the CDI.

Well, that's what I have on the list.  Thoughts?

I kept my responses in the order you presented with my opinion on priorities indicated:

#2 Yes on tire #1 (with good tube) and hold on tire #2 (unless it shows dry rot we can't see).

#4 If your tanks are not leaking yet, learn to land very smoothly and softly with the pucks you have or plan on fixing tank leaks. Cost for resealing one tank will eat up any savings you have on not doing pucks relatively soon.

#3 Get a good headset either through the ANR upgrade Clarence suggested or something.

#5 Paint can wait, but protect the new metal and old with some wax of some type. Added benefit for waxing leading edge to chord line on both sides of the wing is a small increase in speed, according to Mooney folks.

#1 Fix the door seal. Dan had no problem with CO leaking and build up on one flight and the next time he almost died. I have met no one with the luck he has.

#6 It would be great to have a beautiful interior, but it is not required to start flying your bird. Keep a look out for the interior parts and pieces you need, and buy from Plane Plastics at Sun-n-Fun or Oshkosh if possible. Lower prices and deals on shipping can be had at those times.

#6 (Same time if you do a gut and rewire) Think about how you want your panel to end up. @gsxrpilot collected avionics over time at bargain prices. There are used avionics from folks like @Alan Fox and @Aerodon often has deals on engine monitors. For a quick ADSB-In capability, the Stratux @DonMuncy recommended is a very quick and cost effective solution to display information on a tablet device.

The only change in panel priority would be the engine monitor, and that might be up in the 3-4 range.

You don't say when you are due an annual. If it is coming up soon, some of the items might shift a bit, but everything costs multiple AMUs. Best of luck, and thanks for putting another one back into the sky!

[skydvrboy]

Wow, great responses, I've learned a lot already.  Several people mentioned fly it a lot and I've been doing that already.  The way I look at it, the fixed expenses are sunk.  When only looking at gas and oil, flying it seems to be the cheapest thing I can do with it.

Another thing that would factor in on replacing the pucks, I'm now based at a grass strip, 1KS6.  Fun place to fly in and out of, but a bit bumpy with the old discs. 

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Engine monitor - G2 is a great choice.

Paul - you were the one that recommended this one in a different thread when I was thinking a JPI-830.  Lower cost with all the same usefulness.

3 hours ago, Igor_U said:

I’d be interested to know if everything will be done by a shop or you do owner assisted maintenance and annuals

I will be doing as much of this work as possible with sign-offs by my IA/A&P.  It's tough for me to do an owner assisted annual though, because he wants it in his shop and only works 8-5, same hours I work.

4 hours ago, Igor_U said:

I would go with Primary instrument replacement

I thought about that.  It's a bit more expensive, but I certainly don't want to put in an engine monitor now, only to realize later that I want a better one and pay to do it all over again.

4 hours ago, Igor_U said:

I’ve wrapped mine in Ultraleather and replaced headliner as well.

I'd like to learn how this is done and if I can do it myself or take it to an auto interior shop for a reasonable $$$.

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

You can add a Headsets Inc ANR module with new cords, if you can do basic soldering, they work well.

OK, this is awesome, I didn't even know this sort of thing existed.  I'm still leaning toward the QT Halo, but that would be a great option for the headset with the screwed up cord.  That was my favorite, but it creates a ton of static when using the PTT switch now.  That could become the wife's set or the wife could take the Halo and I could use that one.  I don't solder well, but we have a controls shop at work and I'm good friends with two of the guys there who would love to help me with it for a 6-pack.

59 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

Look at a Stratux, as opposed to Stratus. Much cheaper. Same function.

Does this do ADS-b Out and does it meet the requirements of the FAA mandate?  If so, this seems to be the way to go.  From what I understand, there is a direct swap-out for my transponder (not sure it was the Stratus) that will meet the requirements and requires very little for the install labor.

53 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Interior: It looks like you are missing pieces around the window.

Good eye!  I removed that piece to experiment on.  It was the one in the worst condition so I figured if I screwed it up too bad, I'll just replace it.  Trying to figure out how to wrap with leather or fake leather.

[skydvrboy]

13 minutes ago, Oldguy said:

You don't say when you are due an annual. If it is coming up soon, some of the items might shift a bit, but everything costs multiple AMUs. Best of luck, and thanks for putting another one back into the sky!

Annual is due in October.  I don't think I want to wait that long on the tires and pucks now that I'm based at a grass strip.  I think the right tank has a slight weep.  Mechanic thought it was from the sump valve, but replaced those at last annual with no noticeable improvement.

[skydvrboy]

2 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I recognize your plane. It was wind damaged in Marianna, Florida a few years ago. I am based nearby and went to look at it in consideration of placing a bid on it with the insurance company.  Ultimately I did not, but another pilot at my field did and ended up with it. He had it repaired and annulled and sold it soon thereafter. 

Interestingly, the original wing repair was so bad that the FAA red tagged the plane and required it to be redone, this time properly and by someone else. 

I'm glad that you are bringing her back.  I think she had been a pretty nice example prior to the wind damage event.  

If my pucks were that old and my tires showing that much wear I would focus on a restoration of the entire landing gear system first if it was me. 

This is why I love MS.  Yes, the story with the plane was that it was blown into a hangar.  Log books clearly show both repairs and that was a point I had the IA pay particular attention to during the prebuy.  He said he couldn't tell me anything about the first repair, but the second one was done correctly and looked good.  The plane has been flying regularly since the repair, just not a lot of hours.  I've already put as many hours on it in the last 7 months as the previous owner did spread out over 3 years.

[DonMuncy]

My understanding is that the Stratux (as is the Stratus), does not do "out". Only "in" if you want to use Foreflight or others for an IPad.

[Oldguy]

28 minutes ago, skydvrboy said:

Does this do ADS-b Out and does it meet the requirements of the FAA mandate?  If so, this seems to be the way to go.  From what I understand, there is a direct swap-out for my transponder (not sure it was the Stratus) that will meet the requirements and requires very little for the install labor.

Looks like you have the KT 76 which can have a slide-in replacement of the KT 74 which has ADSB-Out but not in. The only caveat is it requires a WAAS GPS source, which you do not have at this point. Even with the KT 74 (or Trig TT31/Avidyne AXP 340 - all same unit rebadged) you would likely need some work done behind the unit.

[Mooneymite]

Ads-B out only for certified aircraft:

 

https://www.uavionix.com/news/skybeacon-certification-update/

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, skydvrboy said:

Good eye!  I removed that piece to experiment on.  It was the one in the worst condition so I figured if I screwed it up too bad, I'll just replace it.  Trying to figure out how to wrap with leather or fake leather.

I would look at the Jaeger method for repairing and if it isn't aesthetically correct for you, wrap it. Bruce's process is to repair the plastic and using a plastic weld material to fill the gaps. It isn't perfect but not bad. If you want perfect, then wrapping with Ultra Leather is a way to go but you will pick up weight in the process. Bruce's process can actually fix something this bad:

My door was a mess and this is what it came out looking like:

 

[skydvrboy]

13 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I would look at the Jaeger method for repairing and if it isn't aesthetically correct for you, wrap it. Bruce's process is to repair the plastic and using a plastic weld material to fill the gaps. It isn't perfect but not bad. If you want perfect, then wrapping with Ultra Leather is a way to go but you will pick up weight in the process. Bruce's process can actually fix something this bad:

My door was a mess and this is what it came out looking like:

 

My plastics aren't so much broken as they are warped.  They sag down between every screw and I haven't found anything on the forum for straightening the plastics.  Can you heat them with a hair dryer or heat gun and then press them flat, say between some books?  If I could do something like that followed by a coat of paint, they would look pretty good.

[Stephen]

Perhaps add shoulder harnesses?

Door/Headset/Tire done while waiting on shipping/install of engine monitor. 

[DanM20C]

A lot of good advice above.

My $0.02.. 

1: Shoulder Harnesses. (I wont fly in a plane without them)

2: Tire and pucks

3: G2 

4: Start making plans for ADS-B out

5: Fly the heck out of it!

6: Give it lots of your attention, you can fix an amazing amount of little things on your own for very little $. 

7: Never Paint it!!!!  I got a good close look while flying around Newton with you.  I can tell you it looks awesome in the air.  I love the patches and mismatched rudder!  

If the panel around the 6 pack is getting to you it would be relatively easy to rattle can and I think you could get some decent results.  I would unscrew the instruments and ignition, push them back into the panel.  Then tape off all the holes from behind and then mask off everything else.  

Cheers,

Dan 

[skydvrboy]

1 hour ago, Stephen said:

Perhaps add shoulder harnesses?

I can't believe I forgot the shoulder harnesses!  In my upgrade spreadsheet I gave them a priority level "1" as in right at the top.  They were listed right under the CO monitor that I already purchased.

1 hour ago, DanM20C said:

6: Give it lots of your attention, you can fix an amazing amount of little things on your own for very little $.

I've already started doing that.  Nuts missing on headset jacks, screw missing here and there, cheap used Whelen LED landing light when it came up on MS, new interior LED lighting, new door pull strap, pulled and cleaned carpets, etc.  I probably have less than $150 in all that and $100 was for the landing light.

1 hour ago, DanM20C said:

If the panel around the 6 pack is getting to you it would be relatively easy to rattle can and I think you could get some decent results.

The paint on there now comes off if I pull off the labels, there is very little adhesion.  I think if I use some duct tape to peal most of the paint, sand the rest, and hit it with a self etching primer, I might be able to get the paint to stick.

1 hour ago, DanM20C said:

7: Never Paint it!!!!

I like this answer, it's easy on the pocketbook.  Just call it "character" and move on!

[Marauder]

My plastics aren't so much broken as they are warped.  They sag down between every screw and I haven't found anything on the forum for straightening the plastics.  Can you heat them with a hair dryer or heat gun and then press them flat, say between some books?  If I could do something like that followed by a coat of paint, they would look pretty good.

 

You can try a heat gun. They must have been exposed to some awful heat to warp. My plane spend a number of years in the Texas sun and it only had one evidence of sun damage (not counting the fading). And that was a bubble on the black glare shield.

 

Do what you can to salvage the plastic. Replacing them is really, really expensive. Not to forget that you will spend a lot of time trimming and fitting the new piece.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[skydvrboy]

Well, following the advice given here, I went ahead and purchased the door seals and adhesive.  I'll put that in myself as soon as it arrives.  Does this need A&P sign-off?  I'm thinking it probably does, but it might fall under #10 Applying preservative or protective material to components where no disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is involved and where such coating is not prohibited or is not contrary to good practices.

I also ordered the gear pucks.  Now that I am landing on grass a lot, I think I want to get that and the tire done before annual.  I'll see if a good friend and ex-A&P will help me change them out for a case of beer... with a sign-off by my current A&P, of course.

Hopefully, I can get the seat belts installed before Oskosh and still have enough money left to get a good deal on an engine monitor while there.

Thanks for the help!

[skydvrboy]

Looks like my tire decision was made for me.  I went to check on the plane yesterday and the "good" main tire was totally flat.  Tried to add air and it leaked out almost as fast as it went in.  I think it pinched the tube when it went flat all the way down to the rim.  So, I have another tire and tube on the way and now they'll match.

[Yetti]

Delaying the tires will cost you alot when you have to get it changed away from home.   A set of Air Hawks and Dressers tubes will run you $300.00  The grumpy IA likes Condors.

 

If you are handy, pull the panels and shoot with the Rustoleum spray paint.  Mine have lasted for going on 2 years. do you carpet while you are at it.

Whoever did your annual did not grease the landing gear.  The grease on the zerks looks several years old.   Wipe with a rag once you do grease things.  Only takes a second more.

 

Replace your brake lines.  It will cause you to replace your brake fluid which is a good thing.

Many people like the Home Depot door seal.

[ArtVandelay]

To give you an idea, I had my headliner covered in ultra leather, broken plastic repaired, ash trays removed and holes left behind repaired, new carpeting, seats redone for $7200 by a quality shop, well worth it, improves comfort on longer flight and of course looks nice.

[Yetti]

Some airplane owners have found that Rustoleum Gloss white is a 10 foot away match for Mooney White.