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[Utah_Pilot]

1 hour ago, Skates97 said:

Without the turbo you may be limited in the summer. We often stop in Delta for fuel and have seen the DA above 8,000 quite frequently during the afternoon, it's doable but it's a slow climb in my non-turbo O-360. We flew over Yellowstone last July and I thought about landing at West Yellowstone but was concerned we wouldn't make it back off the ground so we just continued our aerial tour stopping in Idaho Falls, DA was about 9,500' at KWYS if I remember right. There are a number of mountain locations that you would only want to be leaving from early in the morning in a non-turbo.

I'm definitely looking at the 231 after much advice from members of this board as well as from Kerry McIntyre of KNR in Evanston, WY (writes for the MAPA Log).  The 252 is a beautiful bird but a nice one is out of my price range and needs.  The 231 will meet my typical mission very well...mostly VFR flying with very occasional IFR (a benefit of living in the Midwest), flights mostly limited to FL180 (wife doesn't prefer the mask), and leg's of 500 miles or less...with the occasional trip back home to GA (1400NM).  For this type of flying, a well maintained 231 with a Merlyn WG and Intercooler will be great. 

[gsxrpilot]

We landed at West Yellowstone in July a couple of years ago in my M20C. We were able to take off just fine at nearly gross weight, but we stayed in the pattern and climbed circling over the airport to gain enough altitude to clear the mountains to the east. We circled six or seven times to get enough altitude.

I sold that M20C on the way home to Texas from West Yellowstone, and bought a 252 

[Skates97]

52 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

We landed at West Yellowstone in July a couple of years ago in my M20C. We were able to take off just fine at nearly gross weight, but we stayed in the pattern and climbed circling over the airport to gain enough altitude to clear the mountains to the east. We circled six or seven times to get enough altitude.

I sold that M20C on the way home to Texas from West Yellowstone, and bought a 252 

One day a turbo may be in my budget, until then I'll just keep doing what I can with what I've got. 

[gsxrpilot]

2 hours ago, Skates97 said:

One day a turbo may be in my budget, until then I'll just keep doing what I can with what I've got. 

But in the mean time, don't skip over West Yellowstone just because you're in a C. The runway is almost 9000 ft and it sits in a very large valley with plenty of room to slooooowwwly climb out. Your C will get you out of there just fine.

Note... this is a good plane for a no-flap takeoff. I wanted to build as much speed as possible and then maintain that speed in the climb. Keep the climb shallow but with plenty of airspeed.

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

But in the mean time, don't skip over West Yellowstone just because you're in a C. The runway is almost 9000 ft and it sits in a very large valley with plenty of room to slooooowwwly climb out. Your C will get you out of there just fine.

Note... this is a good plane for a no-flap takeoff. I wanted to build as much speed as possible and then maintain that speed in the climb. Keep the climb shallow but with plenty of airspeed.

Just don't depart on a summer afternoon. I had no problem going in and out of nearby Cody, WY at the end of August, arriving after lunch and departing a few days later in the morning. Didn't have to circle or anything. My normal takeoff is no flaps, but I was heavy (traveling with the wife for a week and a half) so I may have used Takeoff flaps. Headed north towards Billings then southeast to Gillette.

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, Hank said:

Just don't depart on a summer afternoon. I had no problem going in and out of nearby Cody, WY at the end of August, arriving after lunch and departing a few days later in the morning. Didn't have to circle or anything. My normal takeoff is no flaps, but I was heavy (traveling with the wife for a week and a half) so I may have used Takeoff flaps. Headed north towards Billings then southeast to Gillette.

Yeah I should have noted that. We also departed early in the morning. It makes a huge difference.

On the same trip west, we landed at KFLG late in the afternoon. While on approach I asked my wife if she was sure we wanted to stop there for the night. Because once we were on the ground, there was no way to take off again until morning when it would be much colder.

[Skates97]

13 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

But in the mean time, don't skip over West Yellowstone just because you're in a C. The runway is almost 9000 ft and it sits in a very large valley with plenty of room to slooooowwwly climb out. Your C will get you out of there just fine.

Note... this is a good plane for a no-flap takeoff. I wanted to build as much speed as possible and then maintain that speed in the climb. Keep the climb shallow but with plenty of airspeed.

Oh, I'll get into West Yellowstone. That was the afternoon of July 15th and the DA from the AWOS was over 9,000'. We were just on a tour of the area with our final destination at Rexburg just north of Idaho Falls. The only reason to land that day would have been to check another state off the map and so was not worth it that day.

[KLRDMD]

17 hours ago, Utah_Pilot said:

For this type of flying, a well maintained 231 with a Merlyn WG and Intercooler will be great. 

I would suggest the waste gate is not a necessity. I've flown both and chose to not add it to my 231 after doing flight instruction in one. The intercooler does make a difference, however.

[anonymouse]

32 minutes ago, KLRDMD said:

I would suggest the waste gate is not a necessity. I've flown both and chose to not add it to my 231 after doing flight instruction in one. The intercooler does make a difference, however.

I just bought a 231 with both. I don't understand why Merlyn has been given a virtual monopoly in the space and/or why they don't have an absolute pressure controller like the 252 instead of a semi-automatic one as they sell. It would make a world of difference for simplicity of operation.

[DonMuncy]

When I got my 231 without an automatic waste-gate, I thought I really wanted a Merlyn. Until I found out it still would not be possible to push the throttle full in and ignore MP. It took almost no time to learn to watch MP on takeoff. It is really not an issue now, except when someone else is at the controls, like CFIs, friends, etc. 

[kortopates]

22 hours ago, anonymouse said:

I just bought a 231 with both. I don't understand why Merlyn has been given a virtual monopoly in the space and/or why they don't have an absolute pressure controller like the 252 instead of a semi-automatic one as they sell. It would make a world of difference for simplicity of operation.

I'd expect Merlyn is the only player purely due to the economics. They brought a very low cost manual wastegate to market to replace the fixed wastegate. To do it it economically they use upper deck  air pressure to control a pneumatic wastegate. Could they have made a pneumatic automatic controller to control their wastegate? I can't really say except as far as I know they don't exist but my guess is it would become just as expensive or more so than existing hydraulic wastegates still not perform as well. If you start buying parts like a automatic hydraulic controller outright, the controller alone is over $5K. Which somewhat defeats the 231 being the more economical entry into turbos.

 

22 hours ago, KLRDMD said:

I would suggest the waste gate is not a necessity. I've flown both and chose to not add it to my 231 after doing flight instruction in one. The intercooler does make a difference, however.

22 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

When I got my 231 without an automatic waste-gate, I thought I really wanted a Merlyn. Until I found out it still would not be possible to push the throttle full in and ignore MP. It took almost no time to learn to watch MP on takeoff. It is really not an issue now, except when someone else is at the controls, like CFIs, friends, etc. 

Even though  its still a manual wastegate, as all those that operate 231 up high know, eliminating the fixed bolt wastegate significantly improves the engines critical altitude from somewhere around 15.7K (from memory) and thus greatly improves performance in the upper teens and into the flight levels. Its value is all about the altitudes you operate it in. But agreed if one is not flying up there I don't imagine one would miss it.