Anybody actually install a GTN650/750 yet?

[Comatose]

As much as it terrifies me to be the first penguin into the water, I'm || that close to pulling the trigger on a GTN650. I was slated for a 430W install in my C model when the rumours started. I have a GX55 now, which I love, but no approaches. Hate the 430 interface, and, well, if the GTN series really were done by the old Apollo guys, it has to be better, right?

My avionics guy seems to think I could have one in as early as next week if I wanted, but he hasn't actually done one of them yet. He does pretty much all the avionics installs in northeast Ohio. The quoted price was only $2k more than a new 430W installed.

Does anyone actually have one yet? I really don't want to be the first. I design electronics for a living. I know how bad version 1.000 can be.

[Comatose]

Well, I put down my deposit and scheduled and install. Will let everyone know how it goes.

[jelswick]

Comatose, who are you using in Northeast Ohio?  There are a few in Columbus area, but the good and reasonable ones are very slow and the others have jet money style quotes.

[Comatose]

Pro Av at PHD. http://www.proavaircraft.com/

 

[flyboy0681]

I have a deposit too on a 750 and am waiting for my shop to receive their first shipment, which they said could take a few weeks.

[DaV8or]

Can't wait for the PIREPs!! These boxes really do look to be worthy successors to the 430/530.

[rbridges]

I guess I'm a little late on the news.  What's the big advantage over the 430/530?  Are they same size replacements for the 430/530?

[danb35]

The 650 is the same size as the 430; the 750 is bigger than the 530.  Advantages are higher resolution (and overall better display), airway support, touchscreen interface, and no doubt others.

[flyboy0681]

Check out my responses regarding the GTN on this post..

 

http://mooneyspace.com/index.cfm?mainaction=posts&threadid=2457&forumid=1#thread2457

 

[fantom]

I got to play with the GTM 650 & 750 for quite awhile at SnF on Friday...the crowds were very light. Oddly there was more activity around the Garmin Aera display that the 650/750 demos. The GTM demo's were lots of fun, and they seem to be much more intuitive than the 430/530. Many slick features, but nothing earth shattering. The screens are larger, much better color resolution, and the touch screen finger rails may be OK in turbulence, only time will tell. Flight plans, routing changes, approaches, Jepp Chartview, and airways are all quite nice.

Installation of either is not an easy slide-in swap 430/530 operation. They both require a new tray, and the 750 needs about 1.5 inches more in height than the 530. WAAS is built in, but no GPSS or synthetic vision. However, if you want to utilize more of the 650/750 functionality Garmin offers a cool built in, flip flop, voice recognition, audio panel (GMA35) and a remote transponder, which will drive the installed price of a 750 up to almost 30 grand. Chump change for Garmin.  

As I've posted before very slick, but IMO not too slick. If you don't have a decent GPS, maybe you can rationalize close to 20 grand for a 750, especially if you fly lots of single pilot IFR. I, for one, would pay the premium for a 650/750 rather than installing a new 430/530, BUT I would also wait for several months so the kinks can be sorted out. Shops don't have the new boxes yet so installs won't begin for at least a few weeks. Upgrading, if you want to call it that, from a 430 or 530W, is problematic, and I wouldn't want to be a beta tester for either the box or the install right now. I suppose lots of under one hundred grand planes will be getting them soon, and that the used market prices for 430/530's will make value conscious Mooney drivers very happy.

It will be interesting to watch the new box progression after the "first kid on the block" rush subsides.

[flyboy0681]

I think the only rationalization is (if it could even be called that) that we planned to install an MFD along with a 430W. The difference in price when one factors in both units came close enough to take the leap to the GTN.

I was very disappointed to hear that it didn't have integrated GPSS, so that's also being installed at the same time at a much added cost.

In our case, the GTN is replacing a vintage 1997 155XL, so this is a giant leap forward. Needless to say, not having pin compatibility was not even on the radar.

Our shop just got the unit and the plane goes in later this week. I'll post before and after photos.

[fantom]

Quote: flyboy0681

I was very disappointed to hear that it didn't have integrated GPSS, so that's also being installed at the same time at a much added cost.

Mike....think ASPEN....ASPEN....ASPEN. Now's the time.

[flyboy0681]

That's actually next on the list. Also waiting to see what Garmin will have available when the time comes.

[fantom]

With the Aspen, which is VERY slick, you'll get GPSS, thus almost cutting the cost in half, plus you'll have an air data computer, an HSI, a battery backup AI, valuable redundancy, some impressive glass, and about as good an IFR platform as I can imagine for well under 30 grand.

No need to put all your eggs, and money, in Garmin futureware.

[M016576]

Quote: fantom

With the Aspen, which is VERY slick, you'll get GPSS, thus almost cutting the cost in half, plus you'll have an air data computer, an HSI, a battery backup AI, valuable redundancy, some impressive glass, and about as good an IFR platform as I can imagine for well under 30 grand.

No need to put all your eggs, and money, in Garmin futureware.

[Vref]

...a pure EFIS PFD with FD A/P steering capability replacing the OLD mechanical ATT indicators capable of replacing KI256 a like that's what I would like to see in the market more..(KFD840 failed to do this for the moment). This would require AHRS/GPSbuild in the unit

Only ASPEN has it for the moment you can replace a KI256 with the EA100 as interface box for the older A/P's...the GTN is a big step forward I think ..

.roll steering could be seen as one of the outer loop A/P inputs like nav signals heading, course etc.....A digital auto pilot would automatically cope with roll steering so I don't see any need to have that in the GTN....

In a big jet the FMS is neither steering the aircraft..

my 0.2 eurocent's on it...

[Vref]

...oeps ..system malfunction..

[fantom]

Apples and oranges... -Job

[flyboy0681]

Settle down you two. Both points are well taken and appreciated.

We won't be installing a GDC31 but rather the SAMGPS. The cost, including installation is < $1,900k. According to our shop, the GDC31 still doesn't have an STC for the KAP-150. The SAMGPS actually looks like it has more features than the GDC31.

http://www.icarusinstruments.com/samgps/Home.html

[fantom]

Quote: flyboy0681

Settle down.....

[flyboy0681]

I started it and I can stop it.

I now hereby declare the subject closed.

[fantom]

Quote: flyboy0681

I now hereby declare the subject closed.

[mooniac58]

Yeah, as fantom is stating you will get GPSS as part of an Aspen PFD, so paying for GPSS now when you are confident you are going Aspen at some point might be a waste of money.  Sadly I have GPSS built into my Stec-55X (not optional) that is not being used at all since the Aspen does its magic with the Stec in plain old HDG mode.

On topic I am very interested in swapping my GNS430W with a GTN650 - but I am going to wait a while to let someone else find all the kinks and bugs that are inevitably in there.  After a few software revs things should be smooth.

Honestly though, with an Aspen PFD and two MFDs I really don't use the GPS for anything other than keying in my route and selecting COM/NAV freqs.  For all moving map, traffic, Nexrad, HSI and everything else I am looking at the Aspens 99% of the time - the GPS basically becomes nothing more than an input device like a keyboard on a PC.

[fantom]

Every time I look at your panel, Craig, I marvel at it's beauty and ergonomic design. A GTN650 will be the cherry on top!

[flyboy0681]

The replacement of our six-pack is not a sure thing, so waiting potentially years was not an option. Not sure we are 100% sold on Aspen either, by the time we get around to it Garmin may be the top contender.