Don Maxwell - The Mooney King! Thanks For Sharing Your Knowlege!

[carusoam]

Nice Pirep, Ziggy!

 

Crummy pireps are kind of a neccesary evil...

You hope to not have a bad experience, but when you do... a short factual Pirep may be the proper way to go...

 

An MSer had a bad experience at my esteemed local MSC. It’s a human possibility...

 

positive pireps often get put on the back burner by other more pressing issues...

 

In the end, be respectful...  we are running out of qualified Mooney mechanics and shops....

 

without DMax, it wouldn’t have been possible for me to buy a used machine, that cost as much as a house, 1000 miles away from home, in 2009...

Call me biased.

Best regards,

-a-

 

[MBDiagMan]

17 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Publishing only positive outcomes without negatives ones is known as “publication bias” and clearly results in a distorted and inaccurate representation of “the truth.” If you have a positive experience, that’s great. Go ahead and share it. If you have a negative experience, you should share that too. We’re all adults and can make our own choices. I haven’t seen “iron clad evidence” of anything presented on Mooneyspace so I don’t think it’s fair to apply a different standard just because someone’s experiences differ from yours.

Good grief!  How about responding to what I wrote rather than what you want to think I wrote.

I DID NOT write that people should not write negative posts!  I said that I WILL NOT WRITE SUCH NEGATIVE POSTS,  For those whose level of character allows them to do so, go for it.

[HRM]

On 9/5/2018 at 10:12 AM, Shadrach said:

...but there are pilots that have actually departed (no pun intended) knowing (or perhaps ignorant) that the control surfaces were disconnected and reconnected during maintenance, yet failed  to verify proper continuity.

This encapsulates my philosophy about maintenence, sort of trust but verify 

1) Know what was done,

2) Verify that it was done correctly.

My IA left off a cotter on the throttle cable. It could have killed me, as it turned out, it was a great test of my piloting skills and an enforcement of the above two tenets. I know what happened, here's the sequence:

1) At annual, I told him I wanted the fuel servo rebuilt (too much chasing). 

2) They pulled it off, sent it out, reinstalled it. The last thing done was attaching the throttle cable (I really should be in the NTSB). Just before time to slip the cotter pin in the drilled screw through the castellated nut, someone yelled "Coffee's ready!" or a bathroom break was needed. Whoever should have put that cotter in came back and everything looked ok and so they buttoned it up.

3) Fuel control worked beautifully after I picked it up. I flew out to the Mooney Summit, all was fine. Somewhere over NOLA the nut came off. I thought something was strange but I could not not put a finger on it until I tried to slow the plane down. After four attempts to land I discovered that you could control the engine with the mixture 

I just can't agree with those pilots who think they don't have the time or knowledge to know their Mooney, especially an aging one. Now, when anything is done, I check. Annuals, believe it or not, are fairly easy to verify. It is when something special needs to be done that things can go awry.

Although I consider Don to be god's gift to Mooney maintenance, things happen. I frankly do not believe they happened as @cujet says they did.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, HRM said:

This encapsulates my philosophy about maintenence, sort of trust but verify 

1) Know what was done,

2) Verify that it was done correctly.

My IA left off a cotter on the throttle cable. It could have killed me, as it turned out, it was a great test of my piloting skills and an enforcement of the above two tenets. I know what happened, here's the sequence:

1) At annual, I told him I wanted the fuel servo rebuilt (too much chasing). 

2) They pulled it off, sent it out, reinstalled it. The last thing done was attaching the throttle cable (I really should be in the NTSB). Just before time to slip the cotter pin in the drilled screw through the castellated nut, someone yelled "Coffee's ready!" or a bathroom break was needed. Whoever should have put that cotter in came back and everything looked ok and so they buttoned it up.

3) Fuel control worked beautifully after I picked it up. I flew out to the Mooney Summit, all was fine. Somewhere over NOLA the nut came off. I thought something was strange but I could not not put a finger on it until I tried to slow the plane down. After four attempts to land I discovered that you could control the engine with the mixture 

I just can't agree with those pilots who think they don't have the time or knowledge to know their Mooney, especially an aging one. Now, when anything is done, I check. Annuals, believe it or not, are fairly easy to verify. It is when something special needs to be done that things can go awry.

Although I consider Don to be god's gift to Mooney maintenance, things happen. I frankly do not believe they happened as @cujet says they did.

Your experience with an improperly installed throttle cable is why Transport Canada requires an independent check and signature when power plant or flight controls are worked on.  The independent inspector  is not to have been involved in the work he is inspecting.

Clarence

Edited September 7, 2018 by M20Doc

[HRM]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Your experience with an improperly installed throttle cable is why Transport Canada requires an independent check and signature when power plant or flight controls are worked on.  The independent inspector  is not to have been involved in the work he is inspecting.

Clarence

Clarence, first let me say that as I consider Don Maxwell to be God's gift, you are certainly the high priest 

At the end of the day it is money and the need to survive in a capitalistic society. Yes, that sounds peculiar in this thread, but the fact remains that the mechanics that service my Mercedes are frighteningly higher paid than the A&Ps who work on my Mooney--and yes, I begrudge them that as well. My Mooney will kill me far quicker than my AMG will, even given the fact that my driving, according to my wife, is reckless and immature, yet I persist in being a cheap bastard when it comes to the maintenance of my E. We are all human after all. I, for one, have learned that the Zen of Mooney Maintenance is a cooperative, involved religion.

Oh, and the wife has never flown with me and most likely never will.

[cujet]

22 hours ago, ziggysanchez said:

This is a bit long. I'll try to shorten it up as much as possible.

In Oct. of 2016 I traveled to Longview, TX to pick up my 231 from the Maxwell's after purchasing it from them.  Just before I took off for home there was a puff of smoke in the cockpit that came from behind the panel on the co-pilot side. After shut down Don, Paul and myself searched for what the culprit could be but to no avail. Don started and ran up the plane and there was no indication that anything was wrong. No more smoke, no indications of any failures, nothing. So he told me to let him know if I ended up having the issue again. I launched from KGGG to OKC without any issues on that flight. About two or three weeks later after putting a few hours on the plane I turned on the master switch and had another puff of smoke from behind the panel larger than the first one I had experienced in Longview. I pulled the cowl and found a place on the firewall next to the heater box where it looked like a wire had been arcing but didn't see any wires that looked like they could be the culprit. After speaking with Don and sending pictures he suggested I bring it back to them to look at again. It ended up being a chaffed battery cable. 

After replacing the cable everything was put back together and I was sent on my way. Taxied to the runway, accelerated for takeoff and just after rotation lost electrical power in the aircraft. Everything went offline that was electrically powered. I didn't retract the gear thinking it may not come up and if it did I may not get it back down so I left everything as it was and flew the pattern to land and taxied back to Maxwell's. Everything did come back online before landing. There was an electrical burning smell in the cockpit when I landed so I suspected it must be connected with the issue that I had flown in for them to fix. While troubleshooting the problem Don put his hand over the starter and it was too hot to touch. Anyway, turns out to be a starter solenoid failure that Don said he had never seen or encountered before. I won't get into all the details because it would take too long but It ended up frying my starter and completely draining the battery. By now it's after 6pm so I end up having to stay in Longview overnight at a hotel (which I had planned on possibly having to do anyway not knowing if my first issue was something they could fix in a day.) I was given a courtesy car and  Don and I were able to have dinner together. It was cool to be able to talk aviation with him.

The following morning Don locates a starter and solenoid and sends someone to pick it up in Dallas. By later that afternoon the starter and solenoid arrive and are installed in the airplane. It's getting late in the afternoon, so Don does a run-up on the plane and I can tell he doesn't like something he is seeing. After spending a considerable amount of time in the airplane he shuts it down and tells me he was getting  an amperage indication on the JPI 900 that doesn't make sense. We go in his office,  he makes some phone calls and I don't think he ever got the answers he was hoping for. Again, its after 6pm on my second day and a Friday night in Longview and he and Paul are still there trying to work out the issues on my airplane. Don suspects the battery may have been affected by the incident i had the previous day so he wants to run another battery test and let it charge overnight again. He told me He didn't want me flying it home at night until he knew it wasn't going to give me problems. I agreed. I didn't want to fly it at night either...lol.

I called and made a hotel reservation again for that night before heading out to dinner with Don and Jan (his wife) who decided to join us. Again, I enjoyed getting to spend time with Don and Jan, (who I had only met that day) and getting to know them. You learn a lot about people when you spend more than just a few minutes with them. They were both extremely apologetic for the problems I was having, even though these were problems they neither created nor could have predicted. Sometimes these things just happen. At dinner Jan insisted that I stay with them in their home that night so I wouldn't have to incur the expense of another night in a hotel. I respectfully declined because I had already made a hotel reservation and I didn't want to impose.

The next morning (on a Saturday) I show up at the shop. The battery has already been installed and Don has done a run-up and determined that everything is ok. Thirty minutes later I'm in the air and on my way back home to OKC.

This isn't the only time Don and his staff have provided me with this level of service. When I had two cylinders fail earlier this year and was AOG in Idabel, OK. Paul (Don's son) and Tom were there within 12 hours of the failure diagnosing the problem and pulling the two cylinders. The cylinders failed on a Thursday night at around 11pm. I sent Don a text at midnight which he responded to immediately. Paul and Tom arrived the next morning (Friday) in Idabel between 10:30 and 11am and I was back in the air by the following Wednesday before dark.

This is the reason it's difficult for me to believe that we have heard the entire story from some of the posters to this thread. I have no doubt that Don and his mechanics have missed some things on a PPI and unintentionally overlooked some things on an annual inspection and probably messed some things up. Every one of you on this forum who are aircraft mechanics have made those same mistakes while working on aircraft and will make them again. We're all only human. But having a failure after some sort of maintenance or repair doesn't automatically make it maintenance induced  (like in my case.)

Don Maxwell Aviation is the best shop I've ever dealt with (I'm sure there are others....I'm just speaking for myself) and after having spent a fair amount of time with Don and his family he has definitely earned and is worthy of the respect and admiration so many have bestowed upon him in the aviation community. 

Just my 2 pennies.

I have no ax to grind with DM. It may seem so, but that's simply not the case. 

However, your experience highlights some real problems. 

[ziggysanchez]

1 hour ago, cujet said:

However, your experience highlights some real problems. 

You're right. It does. But not for the reasons you think. But because my post doesn't tell the entire story. I stated as much when I started the post. I didn't tell the whole story for the sake of time and length of the post. Some details were definitely left out. Probably some important ones. Just as details have been left out of the story you were told and have told us in this thread.  

[kmyfm20s]

Puff of smoke? Good to go, enjoy!

[gsxrpilot]

What's obvious to me is that being "Director of Maintenance for a very high end corporate flight department" doesn't translate to knowing anything about how to care for and maintain an aging fleet of vintage airplanes. But then I wouldn't take my vintage BMW to the dealership for service either. 

Nobody's perfect, and mistakes can be made. But the accusations made against Don in this thread just don't hold any water for those of us who've known him and have had our planes maintained by him for years. 

[Mooneymite]

14 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Your experience with an improperly installed throttle cable is why Transport Canada requires an independent check and signature when power plant or flight controls are worked on.  The independent inspector  is not to have been involved in the work he is inspecting.

Clarence

This is a great idea, but obviously it comes at a cost.  I can see AOPA fighting such a proposal based on a cost/benefit analysis.

Personally, I feel comfortable inspecting my plane after maintenance.  I have years of experience working as a hangar elf.  However, I acknowledge that not all owners have had an opportunity to work along side some very talented IA's.

I guess the answer is for those wishing this extra level of safety to engage an independent IA to inspect any work involving an airworthiness item not any sort of a federal mandate.

[kmyfm20s]

The dog pile has started.

[cujet]

3 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

What's obvious to me is that being "Director of Maintenance for a very high end corporate flight department" doesn't translate to knowing anything about how to care for and maintain an aging fleet of vintage airplanes. But then I wouldn't take my vintage BMW to the dealership for service either. 

Nobody's perfect, and mistakes can be made. But the accusations made against Don in this thread just don't hold any water for those of us who've known him and have had our planes maintained by him for years. 

The Internet is wonderful, the great equalizer. Where good and bad information can be shared. I've shared with accuracy. As always YMMV. 

[ziggysanchez]

10 hours ago, kmyfm20s said:

Puff of smoke? Good to go, enjoy!

That's how it reads but nowhere near exactly how it happened. Again, I gave a very abbreviated description of what was done to find the issue and after it was all said and done it became apparent that we didn't find what the real issue was until it happened a second time. Unlike when I was in my Cirrus. There was a puff of smoke from behind the radio stack in it one day. An inspection was done behind the panel that revealed no issues. A systems check was done that revealed no issues. An attempt was made to repeat the issue to no avail. After not finding anything definitive an educated guess based on the experience of the Cirrus service center was made but couldn't be confirmed. What was determined was that they believed it wasn't a safety of flight issue. It turned out to be what the service center thought it was. That took me ten minutes to write. Less time than that for you to read. But took an entire work day to play out in real time. 

In the case of my Mooney on that day there were ideas exchanged, inspections made, tests run, one piece of equipment removed (a Nav/Com radio), conclusions drawn and an educated guess and determination made that it was not a safety of flight issue. All of which took place between 11am and 6pm. The oversight of the chafed cable on that first day came as a result of the location of the smoke. The bulk of the inspecting was done behind the panel and the evidence of the arcing forward of the firewall was not visible.

Were the conclusions and guesses that were made by Don and his staff wrong? Absolutely. Was it a result of incompetence or a desire on Don's part to deflect wanting to fix the airplane?  Nope. Just a failure to find the real issue the first time around. I'm sure none of you have ever had a mechanic or avionics guy replace parts while trying to fix an issue you are having only to find that the work they did, didn't resolve your issues. Stuff happens.

Edited September 8, 2018 by ziggysanchez

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Mooneymite said:

This is a great idea, but obviously it comes at a cost.  I can see AOPA fighting such a proposal based on a cost/benefit analysis.

Personally, I feel comfortable inspecting my plane after maintenance.  I have years of experience working as a hangar elf.  However, I acknowledge that not all owners have had an opportunity to work along side some very talented IA's.

I guess the answer is for those wishing this extra level of safety to engage an independent IA to inspect any work involving an airworthiness item not any sort of a federal mandate.

The requirement for an independent check is only when a flight controls or power plant controls are re connected after maintenance.  The check is meant to verify correct connection of controls, cotter pins, locking devices, full and correct travels etc.

It need not be a licensed maintainer, but it must be a trained individual who was not involved in the assembly of said controls.

 

Clarence

 

[FloridaMan]

On 9/8/2018 at 9:33 AM, gsxrpilot said:

What's obvious to me is that being "Director of Maintenance for a very high end corporate flight department" doesn't translate to knowing anything about how to care for and maintain an aging fleet of vintage airplanes. But then I wouldn't take my vintage BMW to the dealership for service either. 

Nobody's perfect, and mistakes can be made. But the accusations made against Don in this thread just don't hold any water for those of us who've known him and have had our planes maintained by him for years. 

Google is your friend. 

[mike_elliott]

On 9/4/2018 at 11:03 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I spent some time at Don's place today and heard his side of the story first hand. I won't go into the details here, but suffice it to say, I'm inclined to believe it. I've been very happy to place my trust in him and his shop from the beginning. The very first time I took a Mooney up as PIC, it had just rolled out of Don's shop and I've been a very happy customer ever since.

If I had to personally oversee all maintenance on my airplane, I'd sell it. I don't have the time or the expertise. So rather I'll build a good relationship with a shop I can trust. I've got that with two shops, Don's and JD's. 

 

Today, Sunday, I was fortunate to be able to call on Don to rectify a number of airworthiness issues a new owner has with his Ovation enroute to Tucson. The owner had a PPI by a non Mooney shop of high regard, and they missed so many things it is frightening. One would think a functional fine swiss watch DG, a current transponder check, a non leaking fuel pump, in spec donuts, fuel gauges that sort of worked somewhat, CB's that didnt continually pop, all 6 cylinders firing and fuel injectors free of debris causing serious blue staining of the cylinders might be caught by a PPI of any substance, but they were not.

Paul and Don and Adam jumped on this today after I spoke to Don. The new first time owner was ignorant of what it takes to have a proper PPI and he got hosed...not so much by the former owner but by the lack of a good PPI. The new owner has just heaped on a huge  unanticipated expense because of a non professional PPI.

Today, I am sitting AOG in Denton Tx waiting for the shop to open to rebuild the leaking fuel pump tomorrow AM. I can only hope the icing that is now forecast for tomorrow doesnt develop or it will be another 2 or thee days to get out here.

Thanks for the a$$busting today, Sunday, Don, Paul Adam and the rest of the topnotch Maxwell aviation team. You, JD, Clarence, Lynn, and a few other shops are a treasure to the owners of Mooneys. 

 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

Today, Sunday, I was fortunate to be able to call on Don to rectify a number of airworthiness issues a new owner has with his Ovation enroute to Tucson. The owner had a PPI by a non Mooney shop of high regard, and they missed so many things it is frightening. One would think a functional fine swiss watch DG, a current transponder check, a non leaking fuel pump, in spec donuts, fuel gauges that sort of worked somewhat, CB's that didnt continually pop, all 6 cylinders firing and fuel injectors free of debris causing serious blue staining of the cylinders might be caught by a PPI of any substance, but they were not.

Paul and Don and Adam jumped on this today after I spoke to Don. The new first time owner was ignorant of what it takes to have a proper PPI and he got hosed...not so much by the former owner but by the lack of a good PPI. The new owner has just heaped on a huge  unanticipated expense because of a non professional PPI.

Today, I am sitting AOG in Denton Tx waiting for the shop to open to rebuild the leaking fuel pump tomorrow AM. I can only hope the icing that is now forecast for tomorrow doesnt develop or it will be another 2 or thee days to get out here.

Thanks for the a$$busting today, Sunday, Don, Paul Adam and the rest of the topnotch Maxwell aviation team. You, JD, Clarence, Lynn, and a few other shops are a treasure to the owners of Mooneys. 

 

Hi Mike,

This once again reinforces the need for a thorough PPI while the money is still in your back account and not the sellers.

Clarence 

[mike_elliott]

1 minute ago, M20Doc said:

Hi Mike,

This once again reinforces the need for a thorough PPI while the money is still in your back account and not the sellers.

Clarence 

You bet it does, Clarence. Again, the owner wasnt taking the cheap way out, he just didn't know any better and the shop that did the PPI was less than diligent . I plan to have a few words with a few people when I can speak about it without resorting to my "hood" vocabulary. Meanwhile, it looks like wx will keep me eating  Texas BBQ for the next few days. Thanks for all you do, Clarence. Your a pro.

[gsxrpilot]

16 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

You bet it does, Clarence. Again, the owner wasnt taking the cheap way out, he just didn't know any better and the shop that did the PPI was less than diligent . I plan to have a few words with a few people when I can speak about it without resorting to my "hood" vocabulary. Meanwhile, it looks like wx will keep me eating  Texas BBQ for the next few days. Thanks for all you do, Clarence. Your a pro.

You can do a lot worse than Texas BBQ. Make sure you get over to the Hard 8.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, mike_elliott said:

You bet it does, Clarence. Again, the owner wasnt taking the cheap way out, he just didn't know any better and the shop that did the PPI was less than diligent . I plan to have a few words with a few people when I can speak about it without resorting to my "hood" vocabulary. Meanwhile, it looks like wx will keep me eating  Texas BBQ for the next few days. Thanks for all you do, Clarence. Your a pro.

It does make you wonder if shops understand what a PPI is all about?

Hopefully there is some redress for the new owner.

Clarence

[orionflt]

19 hours ago, M20Doc said:

It does make you wonder if shops understand what a PPI is all about?

Hopefully there is some redress for the new owner.

Clarence

not only shops, but potential buyers. most people do not understand the differences and are surprised at the cost of a good prebuy. they think that a prebuy is just kicking the tires and looking a few costly items to see if they are good. most do not realize that we are looking at the overall all condition and identifying both current and potential problems so they are not surprised buy things that are found during the first annual. we are also doing a though look thru the logbooks and paperwork to ensure that is all correct and airworthy. I have lost count on the number of paperwork issues or missed AD's that I have found during prebuys. I also do a flight check as part of my prebuys to look at the items that you can not thoroughly test on the ground and evaluate the rigging and flight characteristics. 

the next question they ask is can you sign off the annual at the completion of the prebuy? 

[Danb]

20 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

You bet it does, Clarence. Again, the owner wasnt taking the cheap way out, he just didn't know any better and the shop that did the PPI was less than diligent . I plan to have a few words with a few people when I can speak about it without resorting to my "hood" vocabulary. Meanwhile, it looks like wx will keep me eating  Texas BBQ for the next few days. Thanks for all you do, Clarence. Your a pro.

Mike I wished I knew were there, I landed in Longview around 3 and Don picked up my plane this morning, I’m hanging around until Thursday, hope all turns our ok, todays weather was horrendous.

[Cruiser]

21 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Today, Sunday, I was fortunate to be able to call on Don to rectify a number of airworthiness issues a new owner has with his Ovation enroute to Tucson. The owner had a PPI by a non Mooney shop of high regard, and they missed so many things it is frightening. One would think a functional fine swiss watch DG, a current transponder check, a non leaking fuel pump, in spec donuts, fuel gauges that sort of worked somewhat, CB's that didnt continually pop, all 6 cylinders firing and fuel injectors free of debris causing serious blue staining of the cylinders might be caught by a PPI of any substance, but they were not.

Paul and Don and Adam jumped on this today after I spoke to Don. The new first time owner was ignorant of what it takes to have a proper PPI and he got hosed...not so much by the former owner but by the lack of a good PPI. The new owner has just heaped on a huge  unanticipated expense because of a non professional PPI.

Today, I am sitting AOG in Denton Tx waiting for the shop to open to rebuild the leaking fuel pump tomorrow AM. I can only hope the icing that is now forecast for tomorrow doesnt develop or it will be another 2 or thee days to get out here.

Thanks for the a$$busting today, Sunday, Don, Paul Adam and the rest of the topnotch Maxwell aviation team. You, JD, Clarence, Lynn, and a few other shops are a treasure to the owners of Mooneys. 

 

I take it you are ferrying the plane. What of the list was found before you took it to Don? Was there an in air problem or did you schedule the stop? 

Let us know the rest of the story when you can.

 

 

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, Danb said:

Mike I wished I knew were there, I landed in Longview around 3 and Don picked up my plane this morning, I’m hanging around until Thursday, hope all turns our ok, todays weather was horrendous.

Dan, I saw your plane when I returned from Denton today with a rebuilt fuel pump, one of many airworthiness issues. The stop was scheduled for a quick turn for fuel and to introduce the new owner to Don, but once airborne, I knew we were here for more than a quick trip to the old country tavern for a bbq lunch.

im still pisturbed...best stop typing before I get all riled up again...

[Danb]

Hang in Mike YTB