prop seal question

[rbridges]

well, my first bad news from the annual.  Cole said my prop is slinging oil.  I thought I saw some staining at the base of the blades.  I guess he just confirmed it.  He recommended new seals, and that would keep the prop in good shape for a good while longer.  He said they would check the bearings and see if everything is okay.   Quoted $1600.   Is that pretty typical?

this is my first MSC annual.  So far, he said corrosion looks good, engine looks good.  Nose gear bushing will need adressing, some fuel pressure line needs replacing, landing pucks getting long in the teeth.  I guess not the worst annual, but the prop kinda hurt my feelings.  It feels good to have another set of eyes looking at it.

[peevee]

I've never had a mechanic recommend seals at the first sign of oil, usually I've asked if it should be done and they say wait until it gets much worse.

[rbridges]

Just now, peevee said:

I've never had a mechanic recommend seals at the first sign of oil, usually I've asked if it should be done and they say wait until it gets much worse.

I didn't know.  First time I've gone down this road.  What's considered bad?  My prop hasn't had any work done on it since '01.  I figured it was time anyway.

[N201MKTurbo]

Got some pictures?

The price quoted is typical for a IRAN with no other problems found. If they find other parts that need to be replaced, grab your wallet!

The price for this work started out at about $450 back in '84 when I first bought my plane. The price steadily rose to about $750 fifteen years ago and then seemed to double over night.

Edited September 11, 2017 by N201MKTurbo

[rbridges]

9 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Got some pictures?

The price quoted is typical for a IRAN with no other problems found. If they find other parts that need to be replaced, grab your wallet!

The price for this work started out at about $450 back in '84 when I first bought my plane. The price steadily rose to about $750 fifteen years ago and then seemed to double over night.

Thanks. He said bearings would add to the cost. I'm hoping to intercept anything else worsening and wanted to make sure I'm making the right choice. 

[bradp]

Mine slung some grease and my IA specifically said wait see if it's stopped and you will probably get a few more years out of it.   So that's what I'm doing. With a McCauley 2 blade . FWIW. 

[moodychief]

Call Cody Stallings.  He is a fellow Mooneyspacer.  He did my IRAN this spring.  he is a straight shooter.

[Bryan]

+1 for Cody, he is in Wynne, AR.

I talked to Cody on my M20F Hartzel prop. He said the seal job was not $1600 but something a little cheaper and mine was slinging a little grease. He said when it starts showing up on the cowl and windscreen, I'd be calling for the reseal - I'd know when.

[carusoam]

@Cody Stallingsis a great resource for explaining the work that is being offered...

I'm a bit confused if we are talking about oil or grease related to the prop...

1) I used to get grease ejected out of the prop after annual on my M20C.  A couple of streaks from a couple of drips... I believe BradP may have been seeing the same thing on his prop... (how long ago was that?)  at annual the prop gets greased.  With enough pressure and volume of grease, some gets forced past the seals at 2700 rpm...

2) Other people have reported an oil drip that could be related to the shaft seal at the nose of the engine.  This is a replaceable split seal that keeps oil splashing inside the engine from exiting out the front of the engine.

3) Another oil, that is dyed red, is the one on some props that use this oil as a tell tale to indicate if a crack has formed in the hub...

4) Then there is the seals that are related to the prop blades.  The same ones I believe the OP is describing.  The same ones that leaked excess grease for Brad and me...  But that was grease.  The OP specifically said oil...

5) Other places related to the prop that can lose some oil are related to hoses that connect to the prop governor...

So which was It again, oil or grease?

PP thinking out loud...

Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

I was told the major cause of props slinging grease was pumping too much grease into the prop hub at annuals.

A little dab will do ya.

[rbridges]

8 hours ago, carusoam said:

@Cody Stallingsis a great resource for explaining the work that is being offered...

I'm a bit confused if we are talking about oil or grease related to the prop...

1) I used to get grease ejected out of the prop after annual on my M20C.  A couple of streaks from a couple of drips... I believe BradP may have been seeing the same thing on his prop... (how long ago was that?)  at annual the prop gets greased.  With enough pressure and volume of grease, some gets forced past the seals at 2700 rpm...

2) Other people have reported an oil drip that could be related to the shaft seal at the nose of the engine.  This is a replaceable split seal that keeps oil splashing inside the engine from exiting out the front of the engine.

3) Another oil, that is dyed red, is the one on some props that use this oil as a tell tale to indicate if a crack has formed in the hub...

4) Then there is the seals that are related to the prop blades.  The same ones I believe the OP is describing.  The same ones that leaked excess grease for Brad and me...  But that was grease.  The OP specifically said oil...

5) Other places related to the prop that can lose some oil are related to hoses that connect to the prop governor...

So which was It again, oil or grease?

PP thinking out loud...

Best regards,

-a-

he actually said grease.  my mistake.  given how long it's been since my prop has had any work, I decided to go ahead and have it done.

[Andy95W]

37 minutes ago, Mooneymite said:

I was told the major cause of props slinging grease was pumping too much grease into the prop hub at annuals.

A little dab will do ya.

Sorry, Gus, this is definitely not how I was taught and not what I do on Hartzell propellers.  

After removing the opposite side zerk fitting, I pump grease into the hub until I start seeing some fresh grease mixing with the old that comes out of the removed zerk hole.  It takes about 1/4 or so of the tube of grease.  

My prop, and the other Hartzells I help with, do not leak grease.

[MB65E]

$1600 sounds slightly high for a reseal, but fair. Joey is a good guy. What grease were you using? 110° in the desert and mine doesn't leak anymore. However High temps will tend to throw grease. 

-Matt

 

[rbridges]

2 minutes ago, MB65E said:

$1600 sounds slightly high for a reseal, but fair. Joey is a good guy. What grease were you using? 110° in the desert and mine doesn't leak anymore. However High temps will tend to throw grease. 

-Matt

 

Embarrassed to say, but I don't know.  My IA does it, and I'm not sure what he uses.  

[Mooneymite]

1 hour ago, Andy95W said:

Sorry, Gus, this is definitely not how I was taught and not what I do on Hartzell propellers.  

Agreed.  The problem occurs when the other zerk fitting is not removed damaging the seal.  The proper procedure is outlined in the Hartzell book, but who reads the book?

When we do my prop, it doesn't take much grease at all.

[Guest]

Hartzell propeller received from overhaul recently have only one zerk fitting at the leading edge of the blade, the trailing edge one is now a plug, which is supposed to be removed before greasing.

Clarence

[bradp]

Macaulley prop hubs (at least the two blade I've got) don't get greased at annual like the Hartzels.  

Anthony that was maybe three years ago when I had my Maccauley sling grease in Princeton.  I've put about 250 hrs on it since then and have done three annuals with two different shops and everybody is telling me keep going.  When it's time for a reseal I'll know it. 

[Cody Stallings]

13 hours ago, bradp said:

Macaulley prop hubs (at least the two blade I've got) don't get greased at annual like the Hartzels.  

Anthony that was maybe three years ago when I had my Maccauley sling grease in Princeton.  I've put about 250 hrs on it since then and have done three annuals with two different shops and everybody is telling me keep going.  When it's time for a reseal I'll know it. 

Unfortunately you won't know it with a McCauley.

they have a very limited amount of grease in them to begin with.

A small leaks over a couple hundred hours of operation depletes the grease.

There will be no Big Blowout like a hartzell will do.

One of the worst things you can hear a McCauley owner say is" it had a slight grease leak, then it stopped" or " it hasn't leaked bad enough for me to worry to much about it".

When it stops leaking, it's out.

Metal on Metal is not good, plus the unprotected parts corrode very fast.

When they stop leaking grease, an prolonged operation happens, In most all cases when it does finally come to the shop the bill has more zeros than nessasary.

Thousands of Dollars to fix what a $800 reseal would have covered.

This is what no grease in a propeller will yield.

Massive corrosion, an Steel parts eating them selves up

 

[Cody Stallings]

On 9/11/2017 at 3:06 PM, rbridges said:

well, my first bad news from the annual.  Cole said my prop is slinging oil.  I thought I saw some staining at the base of the blades.  I guess he just confirmed it.  He recommended new seals, and that would keep the prop in good shape for a good while longer.  He said they would check the bearings and see if everything is okay.   Quoted $1600.   Is that pretty typical?

this is my first MSC annual.  So far, he said corrosion looks good, engine looks good.  Nose gear bushing will need adressing, some fuel pressure line needs replacing, landing pucks getting long in the teeth.  I guess not the worst annual, but the prop kinda hurt my feelings.  It feels good to have another set of eyes looking at it.

$1600 is a little over twice what it should cost to reseal your propeller.

With that being said, your Orings being 16 yrs old it's time to get new ones.

You made the right decision pulling it off for service, it won't get any better on its own.

[rbridges]

45 minutes ago, Cody Stallings said:

$1600 is a little over twice what it should cost to reseal your propeller.

With that being said, your Orings being 16 yrs old it's time to get new ones.

You made the right decision pulling it off for service, it won't get any better on its own.

Thanks, Cody.  He left a message for me to call.  I didn't have much chance to think about it, and I'm trying to get the plane ready for the summit.  Sounds like I'm paying a little more than I should, but at least it sounds like something I should have done.

[MARZ]

One other thing to consider - if you still have a prop with the 100 hour AD - you might consider having the update that puts a red dye oil in - it eliminates the AD.  

[rbridges]

5 minutes ago, Mike Ropers said:

One other thing to consider - if you still have a prop with the 100 hour AD - you might consider having the update that puts a red dye oil in - it eliminates the AD.  

Thanks but mine doesn't have the AD. 

[carusoam]

Thanks go to Cody, for the graphic details. Complete with numbers!

Thanks go to Brad, signs my memory is improving! 

Best regards,

-a-

[Tony Armour]

On September 13, 2017 at 10:31 PM, rbridges said:

Thanks but mine doesn't have the AD. 

What shop does Joey use ? Curious if it's the same shop that Gann uses (and I need to ask who that is) 

I am on here this morning searching because my 3 blade McCauley is slinging grease/oil. It was last overhauled in 2003 (Texas) at a cost of $2,760   New deice  boots were $870 of that.

I was looking for info I had read before that gave the reason for a reseal instead of an overhaul. I know engines but my prop experience is very limited. I'm not sure when the last time it was greased what I would call: the old grease was pushed out with fresh grease. If the grease was old, then it would tend to come out easier. Going to go back and read above what someone said about a McCauley and fittings...if any ?

Edit: I see where Cody said McCauley has less grease. But does it have zerks or places to install them to service ? Do they have to be shipped assembled...... As in could it go to Cody ?

[carusoam]

One way to get @Cody Stallings's input...(turn a light on his instrument panel)

Bravo prop

Best regards,

-a-