Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 I need more power and speed. I thought it was enough but nope climb rate was difficult and overall a 1.5 hour cruise set lean and running 24/24 I used almost 19 gallons. The engine purrs and runs great just something is missing and I don't see it. Any ideas? Quote
RLCarter Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 24/24 at 5k I burn 12ish per hour, what does the POH say you should burn? Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, RLCarter said: 24/24 at 5k I burn 12ish per hour, what does the POH say you should burn? 2 minutes ago, RLCarter said: 24/24 at 5k I burn 12ish per hour, what does the POH say you should burn? I was at 7500 and the POH says 10. It took forever to climb too. I realize DA was 3800 and it was dry hot air at 89 - 92 in Fargo. To me it reminds me of driving a carbureted Toyota vs a fuel injected Toyota. The power is not there. I feel like it needs something. I did notice that at 8500 ft at cruise the best MP I could get was 21 maybe 22. throttle and prop all the way in. Quote
carusoam Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Push the knobs in... Then Report back... Climb... MP...Max. Rpm...Climb setting, 2700(?) Mixture... climb setting 200-300°F ROP Cruise... Altitude...8 - 10k MP... Max. RPM... cruise friendly (2550 for TopProp) Mixture... 10°F LOP Note: keep an eye on CHTs and all other engine parameters... PP thoughts of how to turn as much fuel into speed as possible... may not improve engine life at all. May not be very good for efficiency either... but is less costly than getting an IO550 installed.... Best regards, -a- Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, carusoam said: Push the knobs in... Then Report back... Climb... MP...Max. Rpm...Climb setting, 2700(?) Mixture... climb setting 200-300°F ROP Cruise... Altitude...8 - 10k MP... Max. RPM... cruise friendly (2550 for TopProp) Mixture... 10°F LOP Note: keep an eye on CHTs and all other engine parameters... PP thoughts of how to turn as much fuel into speed as possible... may not improve engine life at all. May not be very good for efficiency either... but is less costly than getting an IO550 installed.... Best regards, -a- everything in: 2700 rpms MP 23 climb rate 300ft min temps were close to 400 1 Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 here is the cruise set up in pictures at 6K+ Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 I'm thinking a 10LB bottle of NOS Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 Another question how long does it take for you guys who fly non turbo to get to 10K or 12K. My F would never make it. Quote
RLCarter Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) Refresh my memory, you just got this back in the air correct? Edited July 24, 2017 by RLCarter Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, RLCarter said: Refresh my memory, you just got this back in the air correct? Yes??? Quote
Hank Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Something's not right . . . At that altitude and 2500, my C generally indicates 145+ mph with lower Oil Temp and CHT. When traveling that far, I generally go to at least 7500 msl; no fuel flow, but I'm generally right on 9 gph block time. The first two things I'd check are baffle seals and rigging. Maybe an induction leak? Last week, I took off in mid-90s temp, higher on the asphalt, with heat index ~105°. Climbed at Vy from 326 msl to 7500, accelerated, set power (22/2400) and leaned out. I'll have to look for a picture, but Oil Temp was near the top of the green arc and CHT was lower. Do you climb WOT / 2700, or do you reduce power in the climb, reducing climb rate, increasing engine temps and time in the climb? 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 My C would cruise at 12.5k' all the time. Fully loaded with four people and stuff... My 310hp O comes off the ground and transitions to climb at near 2k'fpm... Climb is really an excess HP to weight ratio. The more stuff you carry the worse the climb rate becomes. Your photo indicates your tanks are pretty full. My climb rate quoted above was done two days ago solo with much less fuel on board. One of the ways I use to tell if I am getting full power is to measure the T/O roll using CloudAhoy app, with a waas GPS source. Climb rate compared to book values is pretty good. Cruise speed vs book speed is OK too, but less pronounced... It may be time to document your observations. Capture your performance numbers in various ways, altitudes and include OAT while you do this. Make a chart comparing to book numbers. To see how close they are. Do you have a JPI to collect data with? Best regards, -a- Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Hank said: Something's not right . . . At that altitude and 2500, my C generally indicates 145+ mph with lower Oil Temp and CHT. When traveling that far, I generally go to at least 7500 msl; no fuel flow, but I'm generally right on 9 gph block time. The first two things I'd check are baffle seals and rigging. Maybe an induction leak? Last week, I took off in mid-90s temp, higher on the asphalt, with heat index ~105°. Climbed at Vy from 326 msl to 7500, accelerated, set power (22/2400) and leaned out. I'll have to look for a picture, but Oil Temp was near the top of the green arc and CHT was lower. Do you climb WOT / 2700, or do you reduce power in the climb, reducing climb rate, increasing engine temps and time in the climb? I'm pretty sure rigging is off. it is being addressed this week. Climb out is everything full forward WOT 2700+ Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, carusoam said: It may be time to document your observations. Capture your performance numbers in various ways, altitudes and include OAT while you do this. Make a chart comparing to book numbers. To see how close they are. Do you have a JPI to collect data with? Best regards, -a- I intend to document everything. I'm preparing for the worst. I have a bad feeling I have lost the engine. I just ordered an EDM 830 Quote
carusoam Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 +1 for getting instruments... Getting FF with that JPI? Best regards, -a- Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, carusoam said: +1 for getting instruments... Getting FF with that JPI? Best regards, -a- Definitely..... I am really thinking about dropping the bomb and installing a 6cyl. in this thing Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 Just now, RLCarter said: What airspeed are climbing out at? Just now, RLCarter said: What airspeed are climbing out at? 100 mph Quote
Tx_Aggie Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Keep in mind your indicated airspeed won't tell you your effective ground speed. I took a new to me C up this weekend, took off around 95*F at 4000' msl, about 3/4 full tanks and climbed to 11,000'. The last 1000' was at about 300'/min. Once cleaned up and leaned out, I was indicating 137 mph (115 kts) at 7.5 gph but my ground speed was almost 173 mph (150 kts). Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote
carusoam Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 Aggie, you need to update your profile to include your C... Having the R in there may confuse somebody about the plane you are discussing. Cruising at 6.5 gph is just un Ovation like... Add the C's picture too while you are in there! Best regards, -a- 2 Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 I think I am going to take a compression test and see where I am at. Last year when I purchased the plane I did a compression test and it matched the annual and was 79/80 79/80 77/80 78/80 both tests were using different gauges and two different people doing the prebuy and the annual Quote
RLCarter Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dream to fly said: 100 mph Rigging, gear hanging down, inaccurate instrument(s) or combination there of. Verify the tach, ASI and VSI are correct, sometimes what you see isn't what you get 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 If I were you I'd be shopping for an engine monitor ASAP. The cheap but best option for a new one is the Insight G2 at $2093 list. But they'll sell it at dealer cost to your A&P. Get him to put it on your credit card to get the dealer price and save few percent. Or if you can find a used JPI that works as well. At normal shop rates, you can burn through the cost of that G2 quick just troubleshooting to find the problem where a good engine monitor will help you pinpoint the problem and save you shop hours. Quote
Dream to fly Posted July 24, 2017 Author Report Posted July 24, 2017 5 hours ago, gsxrpilot said: If I were you I'd be shopping for an engine monitor ASAP. The cheap but best option for a new one is the Insight G2 at $2093 list. But they'll sell it at dealer cost to your A&P. Get him to put it on your credit card to get the dealer price and save few percent. Or if you can find a used JPI that works as well. At normal shop rates, you can burn through the cost of that G2 quick just troubleshooting to find the problem where a good engine monitor will help you pinpoint the problem and save you shop hours. I just ordered an EDM 830 with FF. I have no problems with upgrades I'm just hoping I didn't open a can of worms. I'm half tempted to just sell the dam thing. I can not keep flying one day and fixing the next two weeks. I need it ready to go every single day. I spoke to a guy at the Jet Center and he had a M20D and says he flies about 200 hrs a year and has gone annual to annual with little or no issues for the past three years. That must be nice. Quote
Yetti Posted July 24, 2017 Report Posted July 24, 2017 First off.... Indicated Airspeed is not accurate. You need a tablet and monitor via the Ground speed. Second when I am going slow, I look for flaps being down or worse gear down. I has happened a couple of times. Am I proud of it, not really. Third after three years of flying, I am thinking my MP gauge is really off by about 5. Try WoT and 2400 RPM 1 Quote
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