FLIGHT REVIEW, WHAT DO YOU DO?

[Andy95W]

Still, have fun!  The flight review is not a pass or fail event, you just fly until you both feel like you're done. 

Youre lucky, in a way. You have an instructor who will hold you to high standards because he actually CARES about high standards. He may offer some constructive criticism, but that's better than someone who offers none and gives what amounts to a "pencil whipped" flight review. 

So again, have fun and be glad that it will make you a better pilot. Like Gus (Mooneymite) I get checked 3 times a year and I'm glad when the instructor offers useful advice. (I'll admit that sometimes it's nice when the instructor is a friend and we can shoot the shit, too.)

[Yetti]

Flying back from my check ride the DPE said "Those poor people down there they don't get to fly today" That phrase often goes through my head when I am up there having fun  I always consider it a privilege to have some time in the sky.   Today I even practiced some maneuvering to get it on the centerline.  I like high standards.

[HRM]

13 hours ago, Yetti said:

I am up for one this month.  The last words from the CFI was "make it airline smooth"    I have been out in gusty crosswinds when others are on the ground, but would kind of like to know "what is going to get me"  so should I do some sort of upset training?  What would that look like in a mooney?

Ahhhhh...the (B)FR. Every two years I call over to the local FBO (not the muni, the other one) and schedule an appointment with the Flight Instructor du Jour. For the last four FRs this has been a different young buck working his way to the airlines. None of them so far has ever flown in a Mooney, and they all try to conceal the fact that they know an M20 is legendary. I have the most fun on takeoff, where I purposefully nod aggressively as I smoothly retract the gear--they are never prepared for that. The flight maneuvers are Mooneyesque, as one would imagine from a plane that is possessed to fly. Of the four FRs, three of the youngsters have asked if they could do the final landing, as instructor becomes instructed.

So, embrace the FR and let your Mooney fly.

[RLCarter]

8 minutes ago, HRM said:

I have the most fun on takeoff, where I purposefully nod aggressively as I smoothly retract the gear--they are never prepared for that.

My 248 hr CFII (good kid) that started my commercial made the comment, the manual gear truly makes it a complex aircraft

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, flyboy0681 said:

I don't mind the BFR, but what I don't care for are those CFI's that say "this is the way you should do it", which is more often than not, his technique. This has happened to me twice and while I did just fine on the maneuver,  the CFI's didn't like the way I executed it. 

The long and short of it is, there's no way anybody is going to change techniques that I have been successfully using for 37 years.

 

An instructor did that to me when I was still a fairly new pilot and didn't know any better. More than 20 years later and it still stands out as the No 1 cardinal sin that can be committed by a CFI.

[BKlott]

A timely question as I just completed mine today. CFI gave me an assignment to work prior to our appointment. Had to plan a flight from home base to a major Class B airport to pick up a passenger with baggage and return. He wanted the flight plan, weight and balance / CG information, fuel consumption, weather briefing, the works. We reviewed all this on the ground prior to flying.

We took off and proceeded on course to start the trip and then went into the maneuvers starting with a turn sequence, followed by a stall series and then simulated instrument flight. Did some unusual attitudes and then proceeded to a controlled field for normal, short field and soft field takeoffs and landings...no touch and goes. 

From there we had a simulated fire on board followed by the simulated forced landing then returned to our home base. Back in the hangar we reviewed the FARs, debriefed the flight and completed the paperwork.

Flew 1.3 hours and spent a total of 3.5 hours with him. Total charge...$40.00!

I had flown some 98 hours since my last Flight Review but still found it a good exercise and a confidence builder as well. A very positive and worthwhile experience all the way around.

[donkaye]

On 6/1/2017 at 7:48 PM, MyNameIsNobody said:

Just did my review:

CFI had me do a couple of the ASI courses prior to review and provide certificates of completion.

I am VFR and like the hood time so we  did a bunch of climbs and descents with turns to compass points.  Did Steep turns left and right.  Use of trim is huge here.  We also did some upset recovery with head between knees.

Did five touch and go's two with simulated engine out (push to idle at numbers).

He said "You know how to fly this thing, Take me home".

What does everybody else do?

I don't give Flight Reviews any more.  Not withstanding the negative article in AOPA this month by Barry Schiff, I'll only do the Wings Program with students.  I personally do a Basic and Advanced Phase each and every year myself.  Taking the 3 online courses in areas where most accidents are found to occur and then doing the maneuvers designed to prevent those types of accidents are what a Flight Review is all about in my opinion.  If a student wants to do some other things we can do that, too.

Barry makes it seem like it is very difficult to navigate the faaasafety.gov website, but it is not.  I, also, validate the Activities without the student having to ask me.  All they have to do is then print out the Wings and Flight Review certificate.

[MyNameIsNobody]

8 hours ago, donkaye said:

I don't give Flight Reviews any more.  Not withstanding the negative article in AOPA this month by Barry Schiff, I'll only do the Wings Program with students.  I personally do a Basic and Advanced Phase each and every year myself.  Taking the 3 online courses in areas where most accidents are found to occur and then doing the maneuvers designed to prevent those types of accidents are what a Flight Review is all about in my opinion.  If a student wants to do some other things we can do that, too.

Barry makes it seem like it is very difficult to navigate the faaasafety.gov website, but it is not.  I, also, validate the Activities without the student having to ask me.  All they have to do is then print out the Wings and Flight Review certificate.

Can you discuss the maneuvers designed to prevent accidents that you do so others may emulate?

[MyNameIsNobody]

9 hours ago, BKlott said:

A timely question as I just completed mine today. CFI gave me an assignment to work prior to our appointment. Had to plan a flight from home base to a major Class B airport to pick up a passenger with baggage and return. He wanted the flight plan, weight and balance / CG information, fuel consumption, weather briefing, the works. We reviewed all this on the ground prior to flying.

We took off and proceeded on course to start the trip and then went into the maneuvers starting with a turn sequence, followed by a stall series and then simulated instrument flight. Did some unusual attitudes and then proceeded to a controlled field for normal, short field and soft field takeoffs and landings...no touch and goes. 

From there we had a simulated fire on board followed by the simulated forced landing then returned to our home base. Back in the hangar we reviewed the FARs, debriefed the flight and completed the paperwork.

Flew 1.3 hours and spent a total of 3.5 hours with him. Total charge...$40.00!

I had flown some 98 hours since my last Flight Review but still found it a good exercise and a confidence builder as well. A very positive and worthwhile experience all the way around.

That sounds like a great review.  3.5 hours of his time and only $40?  That works out to less than $15/hour.  Doesn't seem like an adequate amount to me.  Is the instructor retired from another job?  

We also did a simulated engine Fire scenario.

[Yetti]

Wouldn't those be

CFIT

Landing

continue into IMC

[Yetti]

How many inflight engine fires have happened to SEP recently?

 

[MyNameIsNobody]

10 hours ago, HRM said:

Ahhhhh...the (B)FR. Every two years I call over to the local FBO (not the muni, the other one) and schedule an appointment with the Flight Instructor du Jour. For the last four FRs this has been a different young buck working his way to the airlines. None of them so far has ever flown in a Mooney, and they all try to conceal the fact that they know an M20 is legendary. I have the most fun on takeoff, where I purposefully nod aggressively as I smoothly retract the gear--they are never prepared for that. The flight maneuvers are Mooneyesque, as one would imagine from a plane that is possessed to fly. Of the four FRs, three of the youngsters have asked if they could do the final landing, as instructor becomes instructed.

So, embrace the FR and let your Mooney fly.

I wish I had your enthusiasm about our M20 over other airframes.  I just don't.  Great plane for the mission, but there are a lot of great planes.  My CFI while training, Ryan P was 19, left for US AIR midway through my ticket pursuit. Cost me some money re-doing to other CFI's "technique".  As my brother-in-law says: "you'll have that".

Edited June 3, 2017 by MyNameIsNobody

[MyNameIsNobody]

Just now, Yetti said:

How many inflight engine fires have happened to SEP recently?

 

Why don't you get back to me with that stat...

[MyNameIsNobody]

On 6/2/2017 at 2:33 AM, teejayevans said:

I hate maneuvers, it's hard on the plane: full rich, pulling power or max power, short field takeoffs, landings. My last BFR I used (abused) their plane.

This just seems silly to me.  Do others feel that flying their plane through maneuvers etc..is "hard on the plane"?

I do NOT feel this is plane abuse...Unless you are not landing your plane well and dropping it in/bouncing landings etc...

Otherwise: Practice in YOUR plane that YOU fly is a good thing in my book...

[MyNameIsNobody]

One man's abuse is another man's pleasure...

[MyNameIsNobody]

BUT, if you do "it" for variety, well then THAT is the spice of life.

[BKlott]

13 minutes ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

That sounds like a great review.  3.5 hours of his time and only $40?  That works out to less than $15/hour.  Doesn't seem like an adequate amount to me.  Is the instructor retired from another job?  

We also did a simulated engine Fire scenario.

Yes he is retired and lives in the community where my plane is hangared. My response to the bill was "is that all?" He explained that I help him keep his CFI current. Does he deserve more? ABSOLUTELY!  He sure does put a lot of thought and effort into it.

During the year following my heart attack, when I was trying to get my Medical back, Mike would sit right seat as P-I-C so that my Dad and I could still fly our airplane and keep the Insurance Company happy. He would only accept $20 from us and you could tell that he felt guilty about charging us that. He would say "all I did is go for a ride, I didn't do anything." That is just the kind of guy he is. He's pretty special.

[midlifeflyer]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

Wouldn't those be

CFIT

Landing

continue into IMC

Yes and no. The FAA's definition of Loss of Control, it's hot topic du jour, is:

"A Loss of Control (LOC) accident involves an unintended departure of an aircraft from controlled flight. LOC can happen because the aircraft enters a flight regime that is outside its normal flight envelope and may quickly develop into a stall or spin."

CFIT is by definition "controlled flight." And while continuing into IMC is one of the judgment factors that lead to it, it's not the primary focus. The primary focus is visual maneuvers at or near the airplane's envelope. Landing accidents are definitely loss of control.

To understand the FAA's focus, look at the bruhaha over the changes in the definition of slow flight. No longer, "let's hear that stall warning." Now it's "slow down to just above the stall warning and if it sounds, increase decrease AoA just enough to turn it off." Agree or not, the FAA's theory is, by keeping the stall warning going, we are training ourselves to treat is as part of normal flight and we end up ignoring the warning, ultimately resulting in an unintentional stall/spin scenario.

So yeah, those good old standard maneuvers for slow flight, stall recognition, multiple types of landings, even steep turns, are de rigeur. Add in a couple of realistic distractions, and you've covered quite a bit.

Edited June 3, 2017 by midlifeflyer
Okay, okay, had more coffee! Glad you are paying attention!

[kpaul]

9 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

slow down to just above the stall warning and if it sounds, increase AoA just enough to turn it off.

Decrease AoA?

[HRM]

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Do others feel that flying their plane through maneuvers etc..is "hard on the plane"?

No, in fact, my Mooney loves it. I always get the sense that the CFI is wanting to see what she'll do.

[donkaye]

2 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Can you discuss the maneuvers designed to prevent accidents that you do so others may emulate?

I recommend going to this website for a more detailed discussion:

https://disciplesofflight.com/faa-wings-program/

The basic issues the program addresses is:

For the purposes of the FAA WINGS program, the six accident causal factors have been broken out into three knowledge and three flight areas as follows:

Knowledge Topics

1. Aeronautical decision making, including runway safety issues
2. Performance and limitations, including loss of control issues
3. Preflight planning, risk management, and fuel management

Flight Topics

1. Takeoffs and landings
2. Positive aircraft control, including loss of control issues
3. Basic flying skills

For my purposes I choose the following flight Activities per the faasafety.gov website related to the above:

1. A070405-07  This activity covers Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings, Normal and crosswind approach and landings, Soft field approach and landings, Short field Approach and landings. Go-Arounds.

2. A070405-08  This Activity covers Maneuvering during slow flight, Power off stalls, Power on stalls, Basic instrument maneuvers: straight and level, Basic instrument maneuvers: Turns to headings, Basic instrument maneuvers: Recovery from unusual attitudes.

3. A100125-07  This activity covers Preflight inspection, Taxiing, Radio Communications and ATC light signals, Traffic Patterns, Airport runway and taxiway signs, Markings , and Lighting, and Short field takeoff and maximum performance climb.

Doing the Wings Program also provides an additional benefit:  Should you have an "inadvertent" run in with the FAA (call us when you land), you will get 1 "get out of jail free" card every eighteen months.

In my opinion this is the way to go for your Flight Review.

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, kpaul said:

Decrease AoA?

We think alike. Increasing AoA with the buzzer going off won't keep you flying for very long.

I surprised a MAPA PPP instructor one time by how long I could fly along in my C, with turns in both directions, while the stall horn was playing in our ears. And now the FAA says we shouldn't do that any more. The only other times I hear that buzzer is on landing . . . .

[Hank]

23 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I recommend going to this website for a more detailed discussion:

https://disciplesofflight.com/faa-wings-program/

The basic issues the program addresses is:

For the purposes of the FAA WINGS program, the six accident causal factors have been broken out into three knowledge and three flight areas as follows:

Knowledge Topics

1. Aeronautical decision making, including runway safety issues
2. Performance and limitations, including loss of control issues
3. Preflight planning, risk management, and fuel management

Flight Topics

1. Takeoffs and landings
2. Positive aircraft control, including loss of control issues
3. Basic flying skills

For my purposes I choose the following flight Activities per the faasafety.gov website related to the above:

1. A070405-07  This activity covers Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings, Normal and crosswind approach and landings, Soft field approach and landings, Short field Approach and landings. Go-Arounds.

2. A070405-08  This Activity covers Maneuvering during slow flight, Power off stalls, Power on stalls, Basic instrument maneuvers: straight and level, Basic instrument maneuvers: Turns to headings, Basic instrument maneuvers: Recovery from unusual attitudes.

3. A100125-07  This activity covers Preflight inspection, Taxiing, Radio Communications and ATC light signals, Traffic Patterns, Airport runway and taxiway signs, Markings , and Lighting, and Short field takeoff and maximum performance climb.

Doing the Wings Program also provides an additional benefit:  Should you have an "inadvertent" run in with the FAA (call us when you land), you will get 1 "get out of jail free" card every eighteen months.

In my opinion this is the way to go for your Flight Review.

That looks good, Don, but I've yet to be able to figure out which courses I need to take to complete a single level. At times I've had credits in all 3 categories (Basic, Advanced and whatever they call the third one), but I've yet to complete a set because their cryptic, incomplete instructions and byzantine Help sections leave me baffled.

I haven't read Barry's negative article, but I've thought the revised Wings program is less than clear, and the website is truly horrible. Sure, the links work, but I can't figure out how to determine what I need to do. Yes, I discovered the Help secton, but didn't read all 37 pages of it. When I finished my PPL, I was able to attend one (1) seminar under the "old" program, and have never liked the new one--it seems intended to reduce FAA expenses by taking their people away and replacing it with a Rube Goldberg online program whose only advantage is that it is online and requires no FAA travel.

Maybe the FAA should hire a couple of teenagers, spend a few weeks teaching them what they had in mind and how it is supposed to function, then a clear, workable website could be produced over their summer break from high school? Because the current set up was designed by committee using instructions written in bureaucratese, and is gibberish to everyone else I've asked in person about what to do. A few people online, such as yourself, rave about it, but I've never met such an individual live and in the flesh. I suppose some do exist, however, I'd wager much that the they are a small minority of the active pilot community.

What are the actual FAA stats for Stage completions now versus before? The only ones I've actually completed were through the MAPA PPP, where it was all done for me, I just went to class and then flew with their instructors. 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Hank

[Hank]

And for the record, I agree with Harley about maneuvers. My Mooney does them pretty well, with no harmful side effects to myself, the Instructor du jour or to my Mooney.  

It's always fun going up with a new CFI. On that first takeoff, they turn into an excited kid again, looking out the window and saying things like, "Boy, you can really tell this isn't a Cessna!" 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Hank

[MyNameIsNobody]

37 minutes ago, donkaye said:

I recommend going to this website for a more detailed discussion:

https://disciplesofflight.com/faa-wings-program/

The basic issues the program addresses is:

For the purposes of the FAA WINGS program, the six accident causal factors have been broken out into three knowledge and three flight areas as follows:

Knowledge Topics

1. Aeronautical decision making, including runway safety issues
2. Performance and limitations, including loss of control issues
3. Preflight planning, risk management, and fuel management

Flight Topics

1. Takeoffs and landings
2. Positive aircraft control, including loss of control issues
3. Basic flying skills

For my purposes I choose the following flight Activities per the faasafety.gov website related to the above:

1. A070405-07  This activity covers Normal and crosswind takeoffs and landings, Normal and crosswind approach and landings, Soft field approach and landings, Short field Approach and landings. Go-Arounds.

2. A070405-08  This Activity covers Maneuvering during slow flight, Power off stalls, Power on stalls, Basic instrument maneuvers: straight and level, Basic instrument maneuvers: Turns to headings, Basic instrument maneuvers: Recovery from unusual attitudes.

3. A100125-07  This activity covers Preflight inspection, Taxiing, Radio Communications and ATC light signals, Traffic Patterns, Airport runway and taxiway signs, Markings , and Lighting, and Short field takeoff and maximum performance climb.

Doing the Wings Program also provides an additional benefit:  Should you have an "inadvertent" run in with the FAA (call us when you land), you will get 1 "get out of jail free" card every eighteen months.

In my opinion this is the way to go for your Flight Review.

I completed ALC-94 and ALC-268.  These were runway/airport markings and runway incursion prevention strategies.  Second felt with continuation of flight VFR into IFR with accident scenarios.  Both were good training and relevant to my operation.

Thank you for comments Don.