Putting vinyl ("decals") on your plane

[ragedracer1977]

I'll preface this with:  I own a vinyl wrap shop.  I've had specialized training from 3m and passed certification tests to install vehicle vinyl.  I've wrapped hundreds of cars.  Including some that have been featured in magazines.  In other words, I know what I'm doing.

 

I'm buying an M20C.  I'd like wrap my plane to look similar to new Acclaim Ultra scheme.  I just really like the looks, I know how to do it, and I can do it very inexpensively.  Can I do it?  

Part 43 says "Refinishing decorative coating of fuselage, balloon baskets, wings tail group surfaces (excluding balanced control surfaces), fairings, cowlings, landing gear, cabin, or cockpit interior when removal or disassembly of any primary structure or operating system is not required."  

So, can I legally put vinyl all over the plane except for the control surfaces?  Maybe not the wing itself, since the 'wings tail group surfaces' seems to maybe imply ONLY the empennage? Do I have to have anyone approve it or sign off on it? 

 

[RLCarter]

There are several issues in wrapping, corrosion can not be easily detected or repaired as with paint, another is rivet heads, a lot of revits , there are several RV's (Vans Experimental Aircraft) that have been wrapped

[ragedracer1977]

What's the issue with rivets?  I can see the corrosion issue, but with the plane being hangared in AZ, I don't imagine corrosion will be much of an issue.

[Yetti]

Cars are smooth planes have rivets.... so do you let the vinyl make a bump under the rivet or do you cut them out?   I tried some on one wing... did not like the look.

[RLCarter]

getting the vinyl to conform around the rivet head isn't hard as you know if you're only doing a few, but there thousands on the Mooney or any aircraft for that matter. Another thing to think about is as a rivet gets loose you can see the tale tale signs (smoking rivet) vinyl will mask this. Not trying to discourage you in doing it, just trying to bring up issues that might come up. I've seen several aircraft that had vinyl registration numbers or printed vinyl graphics added and they have held up good

[ragedracer1977]

Ahh, rivets are easy.  We wrap semi-trailers all the time that have hundreds upon hundreds of rivets.  You just have to have the right tool and it's very very fast.  The vinyl we use conforms easily and doesn't 'lift'.  Also, I wouldn't be wrapping the entire plane, just adding some graphics, so I wouldn't have to hit every rivet.  The loose rivet issue, I could see.  I wonder if the vinyl would start failing in the area where you have a 'smoking' rivet? I guess, if it's legal, worst case is I could do it, leave it on for a few months, then remove it to see if anything was 'off'.  Literally it would take me only a few hours to do the graphics I'm interested in.  

Here's a couple pics of stuff I've done.  The Tahoe was black when we started, and as you can see, I even wrapped the wheels.  The RV was tan.  

 

[takair]

I know the FAA recognizes the use of vinyl and it is used quite often.  There may be a question of how much of it is "markings" vs refinishing.  In either case you would want a log entry and you may want to coordinate that with your IA.  Would hate to see you put it on and then find out that your IA won't buy off your annual.  There is some guidance here:. https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aircraft/amt_airframe_handbook/media/ama_Ch08.pdf

You also want to be aware of the regulations on registration markings.  That can also be a gotcha.  Ultimately, I don't think it will be an issue for you with proper coordination.

Your work looks really nice.  How does it hold up in the Arizona sun?  Is it comparable to paint?  Does it shrink, crack or lift?

[Cyril Gibb]

32 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Ahh, rivets are easy.  We wrap semi-trailers all the time that have hundreds upon hundreds of rivets.  You just have to have the right tool and it's very very fast.  The vinyl we use conforms easily and doesn't 'lift'. 

Okay, inquiring minds want to know.....  I used vinyl for my registration lettering.  It worked great and after a few years, there's no lifting at all.  However, the rivets were a pain.  I used a pin to deflate the "bubble" and a plastic scraper to gently form the vinyl around the heads. It wasn't very very fast.  

What is the right tool?  (and don't say a competent installer) 

[Bennett]

When the FAA mandated 12" N numbers to replace the previously allowed 4" numbers for aircraft returning from foreign travel, and I was flying out of the country quite often then, I had a paint shop make up a set of 12" numbers "with low tack" so that I could keep my 4" numbers (which I really liked) and "adhere" the 12" vinyl numbers at my last stop before reentering the US. He even provided plastic sheets so I could later peel off the numbers and store them until the next trip. Great idea, BUT! I carefully placed the 12" numbers on the fuselage in the Cayman Islands, and flew to Key West. The nice customs lady came out and wanted to cite me for not having 12" numbers. We looked together and remnants of my expensive "removable" numbers could be found on the horizontal stabilizer and rudder. She gave me 5 minutes to come up with 12" numbers, and so I used blue masking tape from my survival kit to cobble up the worst set of 12" numbers ever seen. No fine!, and the following week I had the 4" numbers removed, and new 12" numbers painted on the airplane. On another airplane I used a mix of vinyl materials and paint for logos and accent trim. Rivet heads were difficult, but with a heat gun, patience, and pins and a razor, the end product was worth the effort.

 

Some of the experimental seen st Oshkosh were wrapped, rather than painted. Most looked quite striking.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ragedracer1977]

32 minutes ago, Cyril Gibb said:

Okay, inquiring minds want to know.....  I used vinyl for my registration lettering.  It worked great and after a few years, there's no lifting at all.  However, the rivets were a pain.  I used a pin to deflate the "bubble" and a plastic scraper to gently form the vinyl around the heads. It wasn't very very fast.  

What is the right tool?  (and don't say a competent installer) 

There's a couple.  With cast air release vinyl with pressure activated adhesive (no 'memory' and micro air release channels) I do it like this:

Rolle Pro

For cast vinyl with pressure sensitive adhesive with no air channels, I use this around rivets to release the air, heat the vinyl, and then press it down with either a rivet brush or a rivet setting foam pad.

rivet brush

rivet pad

Obviously, the Rolle Pro technique is orders of magnitude faster because you can do an 8' row of trailer rivets in a few seconds.

 

[ragedracer1977]

Not my picture, but this is what trailer rivets look like after using a tool like the rolle pro. And trailer rivets are MUCH larger and taller than most aircraft rivets.

 

 

[carusoam]

Things to consider...

1) overall weight...

2) what happens if it releases in parts or in whole.

3) probably a weight and balance challenge to add to any control surface. Flaps, rudder, ailerons, elevator...

4) the best way to handle this is probably work with an aviation paint shop who has the legal expertise and ability to sign off on the decorative work being done.

5) there are many vinyl stripes and fancy decals in the aviation world.

6) take a look at race planes loaded with sponsorships and fancy graphics.

7) how expensive is it to do up a motor home? The surface area might be quite similar.

8) expect a lot of experience to make it as nice as you expect.  Every bump and access hole may want to be maintained...

9) Ms has a paint shop guru around here somewhere.  They do high end helicopters along with their Mooney experience.  Probably can get some help with the technical issue through them..?

10) Review other Mooney paint layouts.  There have been a few Eagles and flags and other interesting things....

11) rough surfaces are a tough add-on to the laminar wing. It can add challenges similar to frost. Read up on frost to see how that challenge is a bit surprising for some...

Things that come to a PP's mind. Not a paint guru...

Best regards,

-a-

 

Edited May 21, 2017 by carusoam

[HRM]

I was wondering as well about the weight.

Then, let's say a tear develops, rips a big piece off and it wraps around the tail or something.

Just sayin'.

[yvesg]

Can you wax on top of vinyl? Or is vinyl shiny enough you don't ever need to wax?

Yves

[M20F]

That Tahoe is quite possibly the ugliest thing I have ever seen.  

[ragedracer1977]

I would not wrap the wings or control surfaces.  Only the fuselage.  I've been wrapping vehicles for coming up on 15 years.  I've never had a piece 'rip' off, and I've wrapped NASCAR and Formula 1 cars.  Remember, many of the passenger jets flying around today have vinyl applied to them.  With the amount I am considering applying, we're looking at FAR less than 10lbs.  Less than 5 almost assuredly.  I can pretty easily calculate a per square foot weight.  I'll have to do that at the shop next week.  

Yes, you can wax it and it is actually recommended to do so  You don't want to hit it with an electric buffer as it's easy to 'burn' the UV lamination, but a hand wax is great.

[EricJ]

The MZeroA guy had his C172 repainted and a partial wrap applied.   It looks pretty good!   They did a video covering it.
 

 

 

[HRM]

2 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

Only the fuselage.  I've been wrapping vehicles for coming up on 15 years.  I've never had a piece 'rip' off, and I've wrapped NASCAR and Formula 1 cars.  Remember, many of the passenger jets flying around today have vinyl applied to them.  With the amount I am considering applying, we're looking at FAR less than 10lbs.  Less than 5 almost assuredly.  I can pretty easily calculate a per square foot weight.  I'll have to do that at the shop next week.  

Frankly, I think with caution and care this could be done. Now I am wondering if judicious application might even reveal a speed gain! Seriously, anything that smooths the skin will give you something. Yes, it might be minuscule, on the other hand, it could also be significant.

Has anyone experimented with embossing the vinyl with patterns to repel water, ice? How about using the vinyl to embed nanoparticles that are hydrophobic? This could be a way to take an older aircraft well into the future in terms of surface science.

[ragedracer1977]

OK, so next question, since it seems that this would be legal.  Would I make an airframe logbook entry or just not write anything down since it's not permanent?

[carusoam]

HRM, you are thinking outside the box today! 

Raged has mention a UV layer.  

There is also an adhesive layer(?).

There is certainly a pigmented layer.

A hydrophobic layer would be extremely interesting.

Nascar sounds like a nice way to start. Realistically, some Mooneys fly faster than NASCAR cars by a small amount.  But they do this every day for years on end...

F1 is a nice example, but max speeds are not quite as high as NASCAR.  Their accelerations are impressive, but not very similar to planes...

Lots of reasons to go forwards, optimistically and cautiously...

PP thoughts only.

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

Raged,

Get a mechanic to work with you that has experience.  Getting it wrong, will cost way too much...

The FAA has rules about what is considered permanent.  One example is the temporary device can be removed by the pilot without any tools while flying...

Now how permanent is the wrap? Can you grab it and pull it off from the pilots' seat?

This is why you want to have somebody in the know to sign your log book. It would be a bummer to be stuck somewhere while getting a ramp check.

Best regards,

-a-

Edited May 23, 2017 by carusoam

[HRM]

9 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

OK, so next question, since it seems that this would be legal.  Would I make an airframe logbook entry or just not write anything down since it's not permanent?

I think you always want to CYA with a LB entry. Even if for nothing else than to record what has happened to the AC for the next owner, posterity, or for the rest of us via the NTSB.

[Godfather]

8 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Nascar sounds like a nice way to start. Realistically, some Mooneys fly faster than NASCAR cars by a small amount.  But they do this every day for years on end...

F1 is a nice example, but max speeds are not quite as high as NASCAR.  Their accelerations are impressive, but not very similar to planes...,

I think experience with the above examples makes the OP very qualified.  I agree about the duration at speeds but remember race cars should be compared with IAS.  Also the F1 cars have lightweight components that have high downforce pressures and flex a lot...very demanding on the wraps.

[takair]

24 minutes ago, ragedracer1977 said:

OK, so next question, since it seems that this would be legal.  Would I make an airframe logbook entry or just not write anything down since it's not permanent?

Even temporary work technically requires a log entry.  When you remove them, you reverse the entry.  If you have a regular IA, I would just discuss it with them.  It is usually the first annual after this type of work that things can get complicated.  Easier to set expectations.  If you are doing one or two benign stripes, it may go in-noticed, however your example photos tell me your aircraft will not be invisible on the ramp and it would be best to have your paperwork in order.

[Hank]

26 minutes ago, carusoam said:

 

Nascar sounds like a nice way to start. Realistically, some Mooneys fly faster than NASCAR cars by a small amount.  But they do this every day for years on end...

F1 is a nice example, but max speeds are not quite as high as NASCAR.  Their accelerations are impressive, but not very similar to planes...

 

Even my old, slow Mooney flies at  NASCAR speeds,  cruising along at 170 mph. Ground speed can be much higher, especially in the descent. Indycars are faster than stock cars, just comepare speeds between the Indy 500 and the Brickyard, running on the same track. I've sat in the stands and watched Michael Andretti turn in average lap speeds of 229 mph; NASCAR does good to hit 190 there. F1 cars are faster, they just have more turns and chicanes that require hard braking, slow speed through the turn, then rapid acceleration. Just watch them on the straightaways . . .

At any rate, I think the OP knows where from he speaks, as a professional wrapper (or close to it). I'd suggest having a talk with an A&P, and show him some work in your shop to cover items like seams, rivets, etc. Your pictures here are quite impressive! In addition to many Experimental planes, wrapping is common on the certified plastic planes, too, but with severe limitations on color and coverage so that the composite structure doesn't overheat and weaken . . . Not a problem with our Mooneys regardless of color, design, climate, etc. 

Let us know what you find out. Sounds like a great alternative to a 15AMU paint job.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Hank