Commuting with Mooney instead of commercial?

[RMA]

Many intelligent, highly experienced Mooney pilots on the forum.  Kindly ask your advice.

Rather than commute from MSP (Minneapolis) to XNA (Arkansas) each week for work am considering obtaining my pilots license and instrument rating, and purchasing a fast / efficient Mooney.  Economics are close to breakeven, but the upside is I obtain a useful skill.  My concern is weather.

Is it reasonable for me to believe I could regularly make this trip (fly down Monday morning, fly back up on Friday afternoon)?  More specifically, how flexible (due to weather) would my schedule likely have to be in order for me to believe I could pull this off???

Many thanks...

[KSMooniac]

Hard to do that reliably year-round with winter weather up there, and spring storms in the plains. I know of a former Ovation owner that commuted from OH to CT regularly but he had lots of experience and FIKI TKS on his plane, and needed it. And still didn't make every trip on schedule.

 

To go from zero to owning a capable plane and flying that trip on a schedule is a tall order, but not impossible. There will be times when you cannot fly due to weather, or plane maintenance so you'd still have to fly in the tube now and then.

 

I'd recommend you just start learning to fly in a rental and see how you like it before deciding to jump straight to planning to commute. If your sole motivation is to be able to commute, then you might not enjoy it and spend a lot to figure that out. If you've always dreamed of flying yourself, taking fun trips with family and friends, etc, then just start learning now!

 

 

 

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[Mooneymite]

Welcome to MS!

Here's a similar thread:  

 

[TonyK]

I think you would be hard pressed to do that reliably every week in any month that has an "R" in it.  But don't take my word for it go take some lessons and see what you can accomplish.

[M20F]

I commute between 47N and KDPA and up/down the east coast/south coast.  Aside from ice no issues about 200hrs last year (not much flying though NOV-FEB).

Thunderstorms for the most part can be navigated around/above/wait to pass.  There was a few times I left earlier or later due to weather but it was planned. 

I wouldn't personally reccomend it as a new pilot or even a new IMC pilot if you absolutely have to be there.  You also have the joys of ownership to contend with and things break/go wrong in inconvenient places (oil cooler leak and alternator for me in 2016). 

If I can be more productive flying (last week did PIT/MDT/BDL) then I do it myself.  If it is ORD-ATL then just easier and less of a hassle to take the airline.  

Flying for work I would add is work.  After you string together a 60hr work week plus 10-15hrs of flying together a couple of times it losses its luster.

[bradp]

What mooniac and M20F said.  Lots of folks have gotten themselves in big trouble using GA for time sensitive travel.  Usually +/- 1-3 days is sufficient for winter where I live.  Plus or minus 12 hours is sufficient for summer.  The most capable of Mooney's will barely tackle the weather extremes (FIKI with a lot of horsepower and /or a turbo).  Honestly the only planes I'd think truly as commuters are maybe an M20M, M20T, Aerostar / Malibu / Be58P/TC, or SETP.  

Traveling north south does have benefits in they you can plan to travel ahead of or behind frontal systems instead of flying across them.  

I lived long distance from my fiancée now wife for many years and bought the mooney to get me to rural airports.  The flying taught me a lot but was more stressful.  You approach the level of needing to act like a commercial pilot but without the buffer of separation from the get there itis siren song.   Doing that from fresh PPL/IFR is a very difficult endeavor because you won't have the experience necessary to be able to properly evaluate the risks of the flight.  

Since my family lives all in one spot again we use the plane to see family.   I feel much less stressed flying these days and get more enjoyment without that additional stress.  In two months I'll start using the plane for occasional work commuting - but the flight time is about 45 min instead of my old 4:30 hr milk run. Given my new airport will likely be about 45 min from my new residence, the drive commute won't be that far off the flying, so the benefit of using the plane becomes less apparent and therefore the risk tolerance and get there itis pressure goes down kind of automatically.    

Start with small bites and gradually work your way up.   Be very very careful. 

[201er]

I just want to point out that the reason behind some of the discouragement you might hear. We all love aviation, flying, and even using our airplanes to go places. However, we also have the experience to realize when things don't quite work out. I don't think anyone wants to discourage someone from getting into general aviation or getting a Mooney for that matter. But I think they want to offer you an honest view rather than the grand view you might have thought or would come to from an advertisement. I think people are genuinely concerned for your safety (and the safety reputation of the GA community) and wish you success within those constraints.

External pressures (get-there-itis) have been one of the leading causes of aviation fatalities. Inexperience, exceedingly quick progression through ratings, and getting too much airplane relative to experience are also a big part. Nobody here wants to see a pilot get hurt or even just a plane get bent up.

Another delusion that prospective business pilots have about the utility of the airplane (besides ones mentioned) is that the plane will be used strictly for travel. Inevitably, a lot of flying ends up being done for the purpose of maintaining the airplane and maintaining the pilot's skills. I find myself flying for oil changes, maintenance, upgrades, repairs on a fairly regular basis. Some are lucky to have all of this available on their field while others have to or choose to go elsewhere for the services. The plane ends up spending a fair bit of time down for annuals, upgrades, and repairs. Then there's the time spent practicing. Even if you fly regularly, maintaining currency in different conditions and for instruments takes a lot of practice as well. You've gotta love flying the plane for the sake of flying the plane. Then all this supporting activity is fun and justified. If doing it strictly for work, that's a lot of additional time and expense in order to safely accomplish the utility.

[toto]

To echo what others have said... If you decide to go down this road, the key to doing it safely is to have a rock-solid backup plan. "Get-there-itis" is always a thing, and it can be especially pronounced if your work depends on you being in a certain place at a certain time.

Some airlines (I'm thinking SWA) have very lenient cancellation policies for full-fare tickets, which allow a cash refund up to - and sometimes even beyond - your departure time. Having a paid airline ticket in your back pocket is a nice hedge​ against a bad launch decision.

When you first get your PPL, you'll use the back-pocket ticket a lot. Almost certainly more often than you'll fly yourself. But as your experience (and confidence) improves, you'll find yourself relying less and less on the safety net.

[Yetti]

Think about a year/2 years to get your PPL and IFR ticket.  It's a good objective to work to.  Start with a goal of taking a discovery flight.  But the King or Sporty's ground school.  Start studying.

 

[peevee]

Probably not. Dispatch reliability and weather just aren't going to cooperate as basically everyone has said.. Better chances with a turbo and tks.

[Sonic]

Depends on your flexibility to take another mode of transport.  I did something similar a few years ago commuting to San Diego for the week from Lancaster, CA (admittedly a shorter trip).  The key was being willing to make the drive (or use another alternative) when the weather or mx wouldn't support the flight.  I drove my airport car home (or vice-versa) many times and that was in the relatively benign S Calif weather.  It's great when it works out, though.

[RMA]

Appreciate the thoughtful responses.  Thanks.

[carusoam]

RMA,

It is often a test of your abilities and resolve and finances to get even close.

If you take it one logical step at a time, you won't be dissapointed.

When are you starting your first lesson?

Where would that be?

Go ahead and update your avatar with some general info.

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

If you happened to be flying today, and in my FIKI Ovation, it would be a reasonable 3 hour flight.  Easy, in fact, with no significant weather today.  

Harder to estimate how frequently you might be able to fly within, say, +/- 3 hours of your desired times.  I'd guess over 80% averaged over a year.  One could pull weather history for a few hundred days and make a statistical model, but that sounds like a lot of work.  Maybe you can get airline cancellation data for MSP and XNA--if the airliners aren't flying, you probably shouldn't either--and use that for the upper limit of dispatch probability.

Significant plusses for you -- both ends of your commute have airline service so you can take that choice as needed.  Your route passes over Des Moines and Kansas City to give you additional options.  You can divert to one of those airports, park, and get an airliner.  

If you're serious and financially able I wouldn't advise you to start conventional training in a 172.  Rather, I suggest you work directly towards your goal: Lease or buy a FIKI plane, hire a CFII or two and start flying that route.  In a year you'll have flown perhaps 30 round trips with your instructors, learned a whole lot of aviation weather lore, and you will have 180-200 hours cross country dual training specific to your goal. By that point you'll be ready to fly the route on decent weather days (like today) solo.  In two years you might have 50 round trips with the CFII and 15-20 solo, and be ready to safely fly in or around most, not all, weather.  

All it takes is time, determination, focused dedicated work, and a lot of cash.  

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I commuted with my Mooney's for twenty years. 

After a while I got really tired of flying the plane. So I started driving two days a week and flying three. I was sicker of driving than flying. 

The point is flying the Mooney when the weather is good and flying the airlines when it is not is a good way to go. Switching it up will make you look forward to both.

Edited May 8, 2017 by N201MKTurbo

[aviatoreb]

The safest ga pilots learn to be a little bit flaky.  I'll see you Saturday!  Or Sunday!  Or maybe Friday. I'm not sure.

[aviatoreb]

There are some tricks I do if I need to be on a schedule - if it's for a business meet and it's just too far to use car as the back up (say further than 8hrs drive) and two days out is still can't make the call... then I'll buy an airline ticket on Travelocity - you can cancel within 24hrs.  If one day out it's now clear I can make the trip then I cancel the travelocity.  If I'm still not sure then I keep the travelocity.  Yes I have (rarely) ended up buying another ticket at the last second - better than making a risky flight.  I've driven 8 hrs...   if been late.  Knock on wood still here to tell you about it.

otoh the kind of flight where schedule is less important / visiting mom etc - she's happy to see me and the kids any times. Then "I'll see you this weekend sometime"..."I think"..."or next weekend"... mooneys are especially good at that sort of planning.  

I have just shy of 1200 hrs, ifr and commercial.,,, so not entirely a newbie... but I am not a pro and I'm not flying heavy iron ... with two pilots ... so sometimes it's best to wait a few hours ... or a day.., or move your schedule up a day.

[Rick Junkin]

Not much new to add, but here's another input for you.

Buying and airplane and learning to fly it because you want to business commute is kind of like building an airplane because you want to fly - builders with that motivation often don't finish the building project.

BUT, if you have the determination and it's a long term goal to ultimately commute by GA, go for it!

On the practicality front, I concur with planning for +/- 1-3 days for departures and arrivals, depending on the time of year. As an example, my wife and I vacationed on the east coast about a week ago, traveling from St Louis in our FIKI M20M. We had to leave home a day early due to approaching thunderstorms, and spent the night in Kentucky due to thunderstorms on the coast that day. We made it to the coast the next day, our originally planned travel day, as thunderstorms pounded St Louis. A few days later we left the coast on schedule, IFR, but weathered the next 3 days in Tennessee while waiting for thunderstorms, and then 30kt crosswinds, to move out of the St Louis area. Granted it was exceedingly unusual weather in St Louis, but I had built the flexibility into our plan. You can't always do that with business travel, and may end up leaving the airplane somewhere while you use alternate transportation to meet a commitment. Experience teaches you when that's the best option. I've done that as well. It can get expensive.

If you have a strong desire to learn how to fly, we all encourage you to do that! As to being able to commute reliably by GA, you're about 2 years and 200+ hours away from being prepared to execute, and the reliability, as others have already pointed out, may be less than you expect due to the number of moving parts involved in keeping you and your airplane capable and current. And then there's the weather...

Great question to post here, and I wish you the best in your aviation pursuit.

Cheers,
Rick


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[SantosDumont]

I use Southwest as my airline backup if it's out of driving range.  I have to use it about 50% of the time due to weather and maintenance.  After finishing my IR I expect that to drop to 20-25% of the time. 

[gsengle]

The key is a viable back up plan as others have stated. Something like a FIKI Bravo is about as close to a personal airliner as you're going to get, but it's not an airliner, and I bet I'll never get above an 80 or maybe 90pct dispatch rate in my FIKI Ovation with an instrument rating. MX is one factor. But mainly either icing, storms, widespread low IMC cause me to cancel.


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[M20F]

So to give an example of how this works.  I had phone calls for 10am EDT so I block 5hrs+1hr for time change, cheap gas stop, and drive to office.  This means an 0300 launch this morning.  Via the airlines it is a 0600 launch and I don't have to pre-flight plus have WIFI (and I generally Uber to ORD versus drive myself to KDPA so that is 30 mins of sleep).  

0200 when I spring from my slumber there is a hard frost and I park outside, no go till sunlight.  I do emails, move afternoon calls  to next day.  Sit at home In Chicago and do 10am calls (9am Chicago time) can't leave at dawn when the frost is gone because it would cause me to miss calls I can't reschedule.  Depart around 1130 EDT.  9000ft was he definite sweet spot by about 15kts over 7000.  Scrap base of clouds with no sun -3C and a lousy heater.  Wear emergency sweater and enjoy the light and 2 whacks of moderate chop and trace ice.  Land just before 1700 for first evening call.  Eat at 47N pizza place.  Do 1800 conference call on way to hotel in car.  At 1852 decide to get up at 0400 to do email instead of working tonight, celebrate with Pinot Noir.

15hr and change day and I am 4hrs behind in the week because I had to fly during the prime of my day.  So I play catch up all week and hope that I can burn enough hours to get out by 1800 on Friday for the 5hr flight back.  While you can be somewhat work productive at altitude/IFR/autopilot it isn't like sitting in 2B.  

Had it not been for my NJ car being at 47N and the need to carry stuff back to IL it would have been an airline week.  It is nice though smoking when you fly :-)

[DonMuncy]

21 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

The point is flying the Mooney when the weather is good and flying the airlines when it is not is a good way to go. Switching it up will make you look forward to both.

Has anyone looked forward to flying the airlines in the last 15 years. I get mad every time I am forced to fly commercial.

[gsengle]

Has anyone looked forward to flying the airlines in the last 15 years. I get mad every time I am forced to fly commercial.

It's not terrible in business class


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[DonMuncy]

Just now, gsengle said:

It's not terrible in business class

 

Will they let me on with my pocket knife? Will they let me on the plane without making me take off half my clothes during the process?

[Jerry 5TJ]

5 minutes ago, gsengle said:

It's not terrible in business class
 

 

So, I could sell the Ovation and use the cash to upgrade to Business Class on the next 200 round trips?  That's waaaay too logical.