First and Second customer Mooney in for cowling mod.

[Marauder]

Any Before / After perf. numbers?  Any progress on the early M20c mod?

David is finishing up an F model that I for one am waiting to hear about the before and after performance numbers. Suspect Matt who has been flying David’s probably has some sense of the C’s performance now (as I am sure David knows as well).


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[Sabremech]

8 hours ago, Marauder said:

So David, will the ram air go away or is it going to stay? Also what is the status of the third cowl flap? Will you add a second landing light? I think I would like that.

Hi Marauder,

We’ll know the final decision with the ram air soon. I hope it’s eliminated as it was the biggest headache to keep it with the cowl mod. We’ll also know about the third cowl flap after some flight testing. It can easily be put back on as I made the panel removable. A second landing light is an option especially since the cooler is being moved. I’m not sure that I’ll do them , but they certainly can be added. 

Thank you.

[Bob_Belville]

7 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Hi Marauder,

We’ll know the final decision with the ram air soon. I hope it’s eliminated as it was the biggest headache to keep it with the cowl mod. We’ll also know about the third cowl flap after some flight testing. It can easily be put back on as I made the panel removable. A second landing light is an option especially since the cooler is being moved. I’m not sure that I’ll do them , but they certainly can be added. 

Thank you.

My E has both the ram air and the 2nd light. With my existing induction system (Challenger air filter) the ram air is worth 1.0-1.1" MAP. Some early J owners say they only see about 0.1". I suppose you'll know on the first test flight when you open the ram air. 

One possible factor, I have a PFS exhaust which I suppose reduce back pressure. I don't know if there's any possibility that would affect max. MAP.

[MIm20c]

1 hour ago, Sabremech said:

Hi Marauder,

We’ll know the final decision with the ram air soon. I hope it’s eliminated as it was the biggest headache to keep it with the cowl mod. We’ll also know about the third cowl flap after some flight testing. It can easily be put back on as I made the panel removable. A second landing light is an option especially since the cooler is being moved. I’m not sure that I’ll do them , but they certainly can be added. 

Thank you.

I would think with powerful new led lights being released every year, that will probably last forever on a plane flown <200 hrs per year, the need for two lights would be minimal. 

Do you think your cowling could fit a TN C model?

[Sabremech]

7 hours ago, francisg said:

Any Before / After perf. numbers?  Any progress on the early M20c mod?

Hi Francisg,

The C model numbers are a speed gain of about 4-5 knots and on mine a decrease in CHT’s around 20 degrees f. I have the plan for the early Mooney’s as well as the J models but can’t start on it until I finish Matt’s, Marauders, and Bobs airplanes.

We’ll have some F model performance data soon.

Thanks,

David

[Sabremech]

Just now, MIm20c said:

I would think with powerful new led lights being released every year, that will probably last forever on a plane flown <200 hrs per year, the need for two lights would be minimal. 

Do you think your cowling could fit a TN C model?

I’d need to see some detailed pictures of the inside of your cowling to see how tight the clearances are.

Thanks

[Guitarmaster]

90% done, 90% to go....

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[Sabremech]

46 minutes ago, Guitarmaster said:

90% done, 90% to go....

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Hey! That’s 90% done and 30% to go! 

[Marauder]

Matt - do you have older flight data to compare CHT and oil temps to? I know my summer numbers obviously run warmer. I think you did your pre-mod flight testing in August or September. Wonder if you plan on comparing operating temps based on similar weather conditions?


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[Bob_Belville]

7 hours ago, Marauder said:

Matt - do you have older flight data to compare CHT and oil temps to? I know my summer numbers obviously run warmer. I think you did your pre-mod flight testing in August or September. Wonder if you plan on comparing operating temps based on similar weather conditions?


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I'll be glad when we're through screwing around with all these Fs so that we can move on to important models.

[Marauder]

I'll be glad when we're through screwing around with all these Fs so that we can move on to important models.

I know what you mean. David really wants to build a J version.


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[Bob_Belville]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

 

I know what you mean. David really wants to build a J version.


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Oh, I'm sure you know what EYE mean.

[Guitarmaster]

Matt - do you have older flight data to compare CHT and oil temps to? I know my summer numbers obviously run warmer. I think you did your pre-mod flight testing in August or September. Wonder if you plan on comparing operating temps based on similar weather conditions?


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Yes. I believe I do.

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[Guitarmaster]

Riley is DONE! At least till the results of the flight testing. To late to fly tonight and tomorrow's weather doesn't look promising. Probably the 28th will be the earliest.

We started her tonight and all looks good with the oil cooler relocation. She has a nice, shiny prop thanks to @Codystallings.

I do have data from last year to compare with and am going to try to reproduce those conditions to get the best comparison I can.

Both David and I are really hoping the ram air will be ineffective and thereby be removed. If it can be removed, the mod will be much easier and will get rid of the intake boot.

Although both our schedules and the FAA caused some delays, getting to work with David and see this come together has been great! I am looking forward to continuing to be David's guinea pig with further tweeks!



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[Mcstealth]

Congratulations and good luck. 

[Bob_Belville]

Riley is DONE! At least till the results of the flight testing. To late to fly tonight and tomorrow's weather doesn't look promising. Probably the 28th will be the earliest.

We started her tonight and all looks good with the oil cooler relocation. She has a nice, shiny prop thanks to @Codystallings.

I do have data from last year to compare with and am going to try to reproduce those conditions to get the best comparison I can.

Both David and I are really hoping the ram air will be ineffective and thereby be removed. If it can be removed, the mod will be much easier and will get rid of the intake boot.

Although both our schedules and the FAA caused some delays, getting to work with David and see this come together has been great! I am looking forward to continuing to be David's guinea pig with further tweeks!



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Wonderful! Anxious for your reports.

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[Sabremech]

I have both Matt’s and Bob’s cowlings in for mod. Matt’s Is getting the ram Air removed and a new induction system. I’m also using Matt’s to fit Bob’s baffling parts and induction system since I don’t have his airplane here to fit parts. Bob’s is getting my cowling mod done. Here’s a couple of pictures of the disassembly complete and I’ll be fitting the new parts now.

David

[MyNameIsNobody]

Bump.  How is testing going?  How many mods completed?  Any step by directions to prepare for an install (specific oil cooler relocation kit for allowing required space etc.). Bugs yet to be worked out on baffles?  Bugs on cowl flaps?  Updates on pricing you install now that some have been done and lessons learned applied?  How many in que for install?  

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Bump.  How is testing going?  How many mods completed?  Any step by directions to prepare for an install (specific oil cooler relocation kit for allowing required space etc.). Bugs yet to be worked out on baffles?  Bugs on cowl flaps?  Updates on pricing you install now that some have been done and lessons learned applied?  How many in que for install?  

I'm certain that David and/or Matt will come along and give the most current update. Matt & I spoke a week or so ago. He was still dealing with CHT heat issues but made a flight with the metal rings removed from around the inlets. On that flight he said he saw a 25 degree reduction in temps. I think he and David were going to map out the next steps. I have been sitting in the queue behind Matt and Bob waiting to find out if Matt's heat issues will get resolved before I had the mod installed.

Bob B had the mod done on his plane and is dealing with an oil temp issue which is probably not related to the mod (he had higher oil temps before the mod). His temps for CHTs are more reasonable and we (Matt & I) are perplexed why his IO-360 A1A would be running much cooler with the same mod installed.

[Sabremech]

5 hours ago, MyNameIsNobody said:

Bump.  How is testing going?  How many mods completed?  Any step by directions to prepare for an install (specific oil cooler relocation kit for allowing required space etc.). Bugs yet to be worked out on baffles?  Bugs on cowl flaps?  Updates on pricing you install now that some have been done and lessons learned applied?  How many in que for install?  

Here goes: Testing is going good finally. Like Marauder said, we made progress on the CHT’s. Right now, 4 airplanes have been modded. Nothing specific yet on the oil cooler relocation. Baffling will be changing to a plenum instead of baffle seals. Matt’s and mine will get a plenum in the next month or so. If it works like I think it will, I’ll mod the other 2 airplanes baffling. We’re thinking of closing the sides of the cowl flaps like on the later Mooney’s. I have a good number of customers who would like it done but are also waiting for the final solution so there’s not any more modifications needed later. 

We plan to install cheek vents similar to Ray-Jay and LoPresti cowlings on Matt's next to increase the air exit flow. 

Pricing is in the $5-6 k range including installation and spinner if necessary.

Thanks,

David

Edited April 27, 2018 by Sabremech

[kris_adams]

I bet you will have a lot of customers!  Bring on J!

[Bob_Belville]

4 minutes ago, Sabremech said:

Here goes: Testing is going good finally. Like Marauder said, we made progress on the CHT’s. Right now, 4 airplanes have been modded. Nothing specific yet on the oil cooler relocation. Baffling will be changing to a plenum instead of baffle seals. Matt’s and mine will get a plenum in the next month or so. If it works like I think it will, I’ll mod the other 2 airplanes baffling. We’re thinking of closing the sides of the cowl flaps like on the later Mooney’s. I have a good number of customers who would like it done but are also waiting for the final solution so there’s not any more modifications needed later. 

Pricing is in the $5-6 k range including installation and spinner if necessary.

Thanks,

David

My contribution to this fabulous project might be a promotional pic after Hawk Aircraft Painting finishes his thing.  

[bradp]

Can’t wait to see it in person Bob! 

[Sabremech]

1 hour ago, Kris_Adams said:

I bet you will have a lot of customers!  Bring on J!

In the plan! 

[Bob_Belville]

@Sabremech, David, a plenum sounds like a dog house to me. I wonder why Kerrville went to and continues to use baffles/seals while playing with the exits = cowl flaps which are now large, fixed and closed on the side. I suppose there might be some suction/venturi(?) effect from the airstream.