Adventures in Annual round 2

[Bob_Belville]

8 minutes ago, bonal said:

That's what I'm talking about!

 

[cctsurf]

Where does one look for such a lift?!  Is that a one-off?  Knowing the fun of controlling the pitch access on jacks, I am having difficulty envisioning how this would work.

[Yetti]

Looks like a standard car lift.  There are rods stuck into the landing gear tubes.  Then hydraulics.  You still have to lift your arms above your head.  Which if you are not used to you will be sore at the end of day.   I have some carpet padding that helps and a boat cushion for my head.  Some of the stuff under the outboard part of the wing can be done sitting.  

[cctsurf]

13 hours ago, Yetti said:

Looks like a standard car lift.  There are rods stuck into the landing gear tubes.

Man am I blind, Good eyes!  I thought it looked like a standard lift, but I didn't see the attachment points in the pictures.

Unfortunately, that would prevent the possibility of swinging the gear, but I suppose if he is doing a lot of belly repairs due to gear ups, that would not be a big problem.  If I had such a thing, I would certainly want to be able to swing the gear.  I'm not certain I would go that far, but man it would sure be nice to get to the underside of the plane that easily.  I helped strip a friend's mooney for painting...  a lot of time rolling around on the floor!

[Bob_Belville]

5 hours ago, cctsurf said:

Man am I blind, Good eyes!  I thought it looked like a standard lift, but I didn't see the attachment points in the pictures.

Unfortunately, that would prevent the possibility of swinging the gear, but I suppose if he is doing a lot of belly repairs due to gear ups, that would not be a big problem.  If I had such a thing, I would certainly want to be able to swing the gear.  I'm not certain I would go that far, but man it would sure be nice to get to the underside of the plane that easily.  I helped strip a friend's mooney for painting...  a lot of time rolling around on the floor!

It is a modified car lift. Don would probably provide details. (The pics are from MooneyMax owner maintenance weekend seminar which he hosted in May. I think he tentatively planes to do it again.) 

[bonal]

Having worked under cars up on a lift and on stands on a creeper I would definitely prefer the former. If you had adjustments to get under the jack points could allow for gear swing as well. That's a nice setup 

[cctsurf]

I like the security of how he has it attached, I would be somewhat more nervous with the lift at the jack points.  Perhaps a fixture could be made to the lift from which to hang the motor mount...  I'd still be very nervous about it, I've heard enough stories about planes falling off of the jacks.

On the whole, I'm kinda dreaming here, but a guy's gotta dream.

[Hank]

47 minutes ago, cctsurf said:

I like the security of how he has it attached, I would be somewhat more nervous with the lift at the jack points.  Perhaps a fixture could be made to the lift from which to hang the motor mount...  I'd still be very nervous about it, I've heard enough stories about planes falling off of the jacks.

On the whole, I'm kinda dreaming here, but a guy's gotta dream.

There is a commercially-available lift designed to stack two planes in a T-hangar. Forget the name right now, but Google could probably find it with a little work.

[cctsurf]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

There is a commercially-available lift designed to stack two planes in a T-hangar. Forget the name right now, but Google could probably find it with a little work.

http://armaerospace.com/

Not really the best for swinging the gear, though.  Or for any working on the belly of our airplanes.  A lift can be had for ~$2,000...  

[TheTurtle]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

There is a commercially-available lift designed to stack two planes in a T-hangar. Forget the name right now, but Google could probably find it with a little work.

I have one of these in my hangar.  Mooney is under it right now but the owner of the hangar is moving a new to him Long Ez in next week so we'll be doing the stacking thing. Hoepfully since he rarely flys we can leave his up top so I dont have to move it every time I want to fly.

Like everything in aviation those lifts are a total ripoff.  $7k or something.  You can get a chinese car lift for $1500 thses days.  A really nice US made Bendpak 4 post for $3500.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, TheTurtle said:

I have one of these in my hangar.  Mooney is under it right now but the owner of the hangar is moving a new to him Long Ez in next week so we'll be doing the stacking thing. Hoepfully since he rarely flys we can leave his up top so I dont have to move it every time I want to fly.

Like everything in aviation those lifts are a total ripoff.  $7k or something.  You can get a chinese car lift for $1500 thses days.  A really nice US made Bendpak 4 post for $3500.

I modified a car lift for my RV4, it works quite well. Other than its upside down in the picture.

Clarence

[kpaul]

[bradp]

Clarence that's pretty cool- I can't quite tell... looks like the mains are sitting in cutouts? Tail is slung to the ceiling? Or is the prop supported in some way.


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[Guest]

19 minutes ago, bradp said:

Clarence that's pretty cool- I can't quite tell... looks like the mains are sitting in cutouts? Tail is slung to the ceiling? Or is the prop supported in some way.


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Brad,

The mains are sitting in pieces of C channel laying flat on the floor but welded to the aft lift arms.  A long square steel tube welded to both front and rear lift arms runs under the belly with a flip up arm which supports the aft fuselage.

The plane rolls on and off easily and lifts in about 30 seconds.

Clarence

[Yetti]

Removed right flexible brake line and almost got the new one installed.  Ran out of daylight. charged battery,

To do:

Remove spinner for NDT guy, drain oil into clean container and fix quick drain, bleed right brakes, Need to lube right gear,

 

[Yetti]

Replaced right flexible brake line.   tighten tail pipe hanger, which of course meant removing the panel behind it, which meant removing lots of screws to get the panel off.  and the majority of my day job.

[Yetti]

finished tail pipe hanger tightening.  replace panel.  took way longer than that should have.  cleaned panels.  cleaned the trim wheel screw chain, who thought that grease could become so hard.   Lubed everything in the tail section. Sucked some brake fluid through the right brakes. Aired up the tires.  cleaned some things.  Waiting on the gear actuator....

[Bob_Belville]

On 12/5/2016 at 1:29 PM, Bob_Belville said:

Spinner issue resolved with a phone call - Warranty is 3 years, 300 hrs. "Known issue" Hartzell will send a new spinner.

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So, Hartzell shipped us a new spinner dome very expeditiously and we shipped the cracked one back to them for their engineers to examine.

Of course Murphy rules the world and nothing is ever simple. When I mounted the spinner dome to the bulkhead I found that the flange of the spinner touches the prop blade. See pic.

Hartzell asked me to confirm part #s (which match) so they'll send another new dome after confirming that it matches their drawing.

Anyone here have a comment? Hartzell is the authority but it appears to us that a slight blacksmithing to that dome flange would take care of it. 

[carusoam]

Bob,

something to consider...

The risk of altering it will show up in a crack that won't stop.

Another thing to consider...  is the prop angle suddenly doing something different than spec?

That's all I got.  Nothing but PP ideas. Not a mechanic.

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

Pulled the "flap" panel.  cleaned the limit switch,  Lubed things and stuff.  

Not sure if the plane will be faster, but all the screws on that panel are properly done.

Just need a gear actuator.   I guess it would be wrong to make it a D with locked down gear.  It would only take a piece of alum where the gear actuator goes.

[Bob_Belville]

On 12/18/2016 at 10:09 PM, carusoam said:

Bob,

something to consider...

The risk of altering it will show up in a crack that won't stop.

Another thing to consider...  is the prop angle suddenly doing something different than spec?

That's all I got.  Nothing but PP ideas. Not a mechanic.

Best regards,

-a-

Well,Hartzell wrote me a note this afternoon. They aren't sure where the problem lies... dome touches blade, but I now have 3 domes that are not a good match for the blade/bulkhead that are suppose to match. They asked how long I could give them to figure it out. I told them I would not need the domw for a couple more weeks, at least. 

APS still has my prop governor in the Warranty Claim Evaluation process. I'll owe Paul (Savvy) a report on what they find.

For one thing I want to get Hector leather JBar boot to fit properly. It really is a difficult application as the JBar swings 90 degrees. I might have to settle for the stretch material version.

Then we'll need to get that right gear up a little higher into the well and tweak the controls rigging... longing for zoom, zoom.

[carusoam]

Looks to me like the screw in that picture is about 10mm too far away from the blade.  There are probably a dozen screws in a line just like it... all shifted the same amount...

Does the other blade have the same contact with the spinner?

If so, when they drilled the holes they didn't locate the first one properly.  The other ones just followed...

Hartzel would have to check the spinner drawing.

keep in mind, my Hartzel spinner is too small, the other engineering option was too large.

They need somebody that can make a spinner that is just right. 

Best regards,

-a-

[Bob_Belville]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Looks to me like the screw in that picture is about 10mm too far away from the blade.  There are probably a dozen screws in a line just like it... all shifted the same amount...

Exactly, it would fit nicely if all the holes were indexed 1/8" to even 1/4". The way the holes are done, there are two holes on each side, centered between the prop notches that are close the the screw size - a tight fit. The other holes are oversize about one screw size which provides some tolerance. The bulkhead is fitted with t-nuts which are done the same way, 2 on each side are fixed, the others have a little wiggle room. 

Does the other blade have the same contact with the spinner?

Yes.

If so, when they drilled the holes they didn't locate the first one properly.  The other ones just followed...

Hartzel would have to check the spinner drawing.

keep in mind, my Hartzel spinner is too small, the other engineering option was too large.

They need somebody that can make a spinner that is just right. 

The spinner dome fits fine. It just need to spin ~ 1/4".  

Thanks.

 

[cliffy]

One item we found years ago on Navajo spinners was to put a nylon washer under the head of each spinner screw. It stopped all of the cracking we got from the screw holes near each blade hole. My guess is that the washer didn't allow the small scratches from the screw head to gouge into the spinner giving stress points for the cracking. Worked like a charm. I do it to this day. 

[Marauder]

One item we found years ago on Navajo spinners was to put a nylon washer under the head of each spinner screw. It stopped all of the cracking we got from the screw holes near each blade hole. My guess is that the washer didn't allow the small scratches from the screw head to gouge into the spinner giving stress points for the cracking. Worked like a charm. I do it to this day. 

Now that you mentioned it. At one time I had those opaque nylon washers on my spinner screws. They must have been removed at the last prop overhaul. Good info to know.


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