Chinese Buyer for Mooney?

[donshapansky]

Any major changes such as a fuselage is probably like starting over in terms of the FAA requirements, the composite saga of the FAA learning on the OEM's dime started with the Lear Fan, basically nuetered the Beech Starship by adding so many stiffeners etc. it lost all weight advantages it had over the King Air 300 - 350 series and Beech finally used composites only on the fuselage of the Premier I with aluminum wings and empenage. I bet the costs would easily top $20 million to make the changes. Cirrus spent $62 million to the SR20 certified for sale, they are planning on $125 million for the new Vision Jet. 

[Capt_CrashN_Burn]

Has anyone considered the posibility that these rumors of Chinese buyers is just a bunch of mis-information to try to encourage US investors?? (if you don't help us out, the Chinese will take us over! Ooh noooes!!!)

[DaV8or]

Quote: Capt_CrashN_Burn

Has anyone considered the posibility that these rumors of Chinese buyers is just a bunch of mis-information to try to encourage US investors?? (if you don't help us out, the Chinese will take us over! Ooh noooes!!!)

[74657]

I agree with Dave.  The way to make a small fortune in General Aviation is very similar to car racing...... start with a big one.

[donshapansky]

When I look at the next airplane for me in the business world, get me there, get me home safely and now sometimes I need to take a couple of engineers with me, or bring someone to a meeting fast, none of the new singles really offer the answer (maybe the Matrix) due to useful load issues. They are all in the same price range as a good used Mirage JetProp, which is  a whole lot more capable with useful load issues about the same as the Matrix. So the debate rages on in my head, twins are maintenance and fuel hogs without much change in speed (Aerostar 700 exempted) , what to do I don't know yet. I'm glad I'm not trying to figure out the future of Mooney, cause it ain't easy!

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: donshapansky

When I look at the next airplane for me in the business world, get me there, get me home safely and now sometimes I need to take a couple of engineers with me, or bring someone to a meeting fast, none of the new singles really offer the answer (maybe the Matrix) due to useful load issues. They are all in the same price range as a good used Mirage JetProp, which is  a whole lot more capable with useful load issues about the same as the Matrix. So the debate rages on in my head, twins are maintenance and fuel hogs without much change in speed (Aerostar 700 exempted) , what to do I don't know yet. I'm glad I'm not trying to figure out the future of Mooney, cause it ain't easy!

[donshapansky]

Hey, Parker I've sat in one but it was over 2 million, an older TBM has useful load issues about the same as the JetProp with no better speed and a lot more money. ?

[Parker_Woodruff]

Quote: donshapansky

Hey, Parker I've sat in one but it was over 2 million, an older TBM has useful load issues about the same as the JetProp with no better speed and a lot more money. ?

[docket]

If you want the best deal for business travel just buy a place on NetJets.  I fly in a Lear 35 for about 3000 per hour.  I use it about 20 hours a year.  While it costs 60K for that travel it has no maintainence, no fuel, no training, etc.  When I used to have the MU-2 the insurance alone was 20K a year and my Flight Safety annual training was $7K.  The annuals on the plane were no less than $25K.  And, I never flew with clients without an extra pilot.  So, compared to a twin turbo prop (at 20 to 30 hours a year) the NetJets deal works and they treat you like a rockstar.

Now when it is just me, the Mooney is great.

[donshapansky]

I've thought about that as an alternative, but I don't think there is an airport around me within 30 miles that has the balanced field length especially at 100 - 110 OAT. My freind sneaks his Citation in with low fuel and himself, but that's all he's willing to risk!

[RobertoTohme]

Quote: Parker_Woodruff

The kind of trips you fly, I'd want:

Fast

Pressurization

Low probability of engine failure.

I thought useful load of the TBM700 was significantly more than a Jetprop...but looking at this listing, full fuel useful load is 568lbs for the ship in question.  Pretty close to your Mooney, right?  What's the range on half tanks in the TBM?  Do you need such long range with others on board?

[DaV8or]

Quote: RobertoTohme

[Capt_CrashN_Burn]

Quote: donshapansky

Hey, Parker I've sat in one but it was over 2 million, an older TBM has useful load issues about the same as the JetProp with no better speed and a lot more money. ?

[donshapansky]

Roberto, I confess I am interested as a second choice in a used Meridian say a 2005 -2006 with the gross weight increase and other changes, I really would like to know what you found to be troublesome compared to the TBM? My first choice would be a late model JetProp conversion with the -35 PT6 according to the forums it has a lot of advantages over the Meridian in climb, fuel burn but less useful load.

[RobertoTohme]

Don, I'll be glad to share my impressions and numbers with you about the Meridian vs. TBM, but I don't know specifics of the Jetprop conversion other than it's made by Rocket Eng so I can't compare it to TBM's, or Meridians for that matter...  I'm sending you a PM with my contact information.

[GeorgePerry]

There's a good article in this months AOPA pilot specifically on the JetProp.  The article draws some direct comparisions between the Meridian and the JetProp.  I've never flown either, but if you believe the author of the AOPA article the JetProp outperforms the Meridian in many areas.

[maxmax]

It is sad to think about losing American Icon names such as Mooney to the Chinese, but it's a global world out there, and better we trade products than bullets I suppose.  I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but we are in a bit of a pinch here in the US.  We are going to have to start producing things again, and rewarding capital investment rather than punishing it.  We cannot tax and spend our way to prosperity.  I think somebody once said " Democracy is great...until people realize they can vote themselves the national treasury, then it all goes to hell".  We that about sums up our predicament from top to bottom and I don't see it ending nicely, but hopefully I am wrong.

[DaV8or]

Quote: maxmax

I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but we are in a bit of a pinch here in the US.  We are going to have to start producing things again, and rewarding capital investment rather than punishing it.  We cannot tax and spend our way to prosperity.

[airbusflyboy]

Screw the Chinese and their new found $$$ ........................ they only got where they are because of the political play that was going on to get them there ....................... The paradighm shift of wealth to the other side of the World does not mean that we have to accept it as being good for us ......................... We need MANUFACTURING here in these UNITED STATES, not overseas in some foreign sweat shops and especially a country like China that dehumanizes the souls of those working in its factories. The Chinese will not ever be able to produce anything on par with U.S.A manfacturing ................... Why ? Because MADE IN USA has meaning and a sense of integrity that cannot and will not ever be equalled anywhere else in the world.

[tony]

You guys should read this book:

http://www.amazon.com/World-Flat-3-0-History-Twenty-first/dp/0312425074/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1293407863&sr=8-1

We are witnessing the decline of America.  It’s never going to be like it was.

 

[maxmax]

Quote: tony

We are witnessing the decline of America.  It’s never going to be like it was.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: JimR

Build it overseas and assemble it in Kerrville, if necessary.   

[maxmax]

Quote: JimR

[maxmax]

Quote: GeorgePerry

 I couldn't agree more!  If it's true the major cost driver to producing Mooney airframes are the manhours required to make the parts, then it makes perfect sense to spec the parts out to an overseas supplier.  Why fight the rediculously low labor costs that other countries enjoy.  When Mooney gets back into the plane building business, they should take advantage of this. 

I know it sounds like a pipe-dream but if Mooney could make a bare bones, $200K-250K M20 J 201 they wouldn't be able to assembly them fast enough.

[maxmax]

oops double hit the button.