nels Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 I thought I remembered someone sending a sample of upholstery fabric out to be burn checked for use in a plane. I'm having trouble finding the discussion. While pulling my side panels for a redye I noticed that there has been foil covered foam insulation added in place of the original. I didn't see an entry in the log book and thought I would like to send a sample out to be checked. Anyone out there done this before who might enlighten me on the procedure?
bradp Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 Sandia one place where you could send it. There a couple of testing labs (maybe one in TX IIRC). Important to know whether your plane is certified under CAR-3 or FAR23. The former's burn requirements are less rigorous, and certifications per se are not always required. It may be prudent, even if flammability testing is not required, to take a small bit and light it, making sure it won't erupt But don't worry - the problem is not so much the flames as the cyanide gasses that are emitted when plastics and certain types of foam burn. -B 1
Piloto Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 My understanding of the test: If the material does not continue burning by itself when the flame is removed then it is good for plane. Most plastics will melt on a flame but not burn by itself. Paint can cause to burn.. José 2
RLCarter Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 Most "Commercial" grade fabrics/textiles far exceed the burn requirements of CAR-3 and the burn Certs. can be had for a fraction of what the aviation providers want 1
carusoam Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 Flammability wasn't known to be important until the 70s. Kids footy pajamas were deadly once ignited. More of a northern challenge. If you grew up with a woodstove in your house, you know what I mean... i have tested a few plastic articles at work. The ones that fail usually do so in a gasoline like fashion. Remember the airplane isn't going to be like a test lab. Plastics, by nature are often flammable. They become flame resistant by mixing in chemicals that improve their flammability rating. Without the added resistance, the plastics melt and burn. Some melt to low viscosity liquids and burn, spreading fire easily. Some polymer foams use propane and/or pentane as a lower cost foaming agent. Ever seen a styrofoam cup burn? Dripping flames.... At a minimum, do your own testing on a sample of the materials you get. Outside or in the fireplace... PP advice, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- 1
Yetti Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 There is an AC that you can read and possibly make a log book entry saying you conformed to it. The AC would suggest that your CAR certificated plane should also conform to higher standards of today. You build a box and then use a bunson burner to burn through at different angles for a given time frame. A propane torch should give pretty good idea if material is passable. The same piece of leather was used for all three tests and still did not burn through. The test asks for a new piece for each test. Work with your IA to see what they are comfortable signing off on. 2
Bob_Belville Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 You may be remembering my report(s?). I sent (automotive) carpet, leather, and headliner materials to Skandia where 5 flame spread tests were run. All materials passed easily. Here's my logbook entry from 2012: "Replaced interior fabrics (headliner, carpet, leather) with materials tested by Skandia Inc. under w/o # 249481 dated 12-10-2012 and certified 14 CFR Part 23.853 and 23-49 app F (e) and certified by FAA DER on 12-12-2012. Said documents attached. Work was performed by Dave's Trim and Robert Belville, owner. " (signed off by my A&P.) Skandia charged me $135. for 5 tests (carpet and headliner had to be tested in both warp and weft orientations) in 2012. 2
Brandontwalker Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 Automotive upholstery is fine as long as it has the requisite FAR burn test rating. I tested some that had the rating and some that did not. The upholstery that was not FAR rated burned more than 3x faster than the one that did. Easy decision in my book. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1
Yetti Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 The standards that the FAA is trying to promulgate have to work for egressing an airliner and a small plane. Think about where the flame source can come from and then where it can go. So do I really care if the seat cushion foam is flame rated? nope, If I am still sitting in the seat and fire is trying to catch it on, I got bigger problems than the foam catching on fire. 1
Piloto Posted September 25, 2016 Report Posted September 25, 2016 Most important is to avoid starting a fire. In the cabin environment this would be started by an electrical short. This is why is important to have properly rated wires and circuit breakers. Most avionics behind the panel are enclosed in metal housings to contain any fire within. In the engine area fires are fueled with fuel so it is important to close the fuel selector when fire is observed. José 1
nels Posted September 26, 2016 Author Report Posted September 26, 2016 Thanks for the help. I was in a car driving from Cincinnati to Denver so just now checking in. Good information and suggestions. I will probably send a sample out for test. How big does the feet sample need to be and any direct contact info on where to send?
mooniac15u Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 On September 24, 2016 at 11:32 PM, nels said: I thought I remembered someone sending a sample of upholstery fabric out to be burn checked for use in a plane. I'm having trouble finding the discussion. While pulling my side panels for a redye I noticed that there has been foil covered foam insulation added in place of the original. I didn't see an entry in the log book and thought I would like to send a sample out to be checked. Anyone out there done this before who might enlighten me on the procedure? The insulation was probably replaced as part of SB 208. The appropriate insulation is specified in the SB. 1
Bob_Belville Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 Just now, nels said: Thanks for the help. I was in a car driving from Cincinnati to Denver so just now checking in. Good information and suggestions. I will probably send a sample out for test. How big does the feet sample need to be and any direct contact info on where to send? http://www.skandiainc.com/flamtest-cert.php Let me know if you do not find what you need. I can dig out my correspondence. 1
Andy95W Posted September 26, 2016 Report Posted September 26, 2016 Many of these issues were discussed two years ago, particularly referencing CAR-3 requirements. 1
nels Posted September 26, 2016 Author Report Posted September 26, 2016 Great information, guys. I'm stuck here in Denver for about two weeks working on my daughter's and son in law's new house. I will certainly send some samples out for testing when I get home. It looks a lot easier to do than I had imagined! Looks like some have redirected me to prior discussions and articles which I will enjoy reading over in the evenings. Thanks!
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