Circling

[Conrad]

One of the things that has proved hard for me during my training is executing a holding pattern to buy myself time to reference charts and maps. Obviously much of the time Mooney flights are long enough that there's all the time in the world to do this sort of thing en route, but that's not always the case. I'm especially thinking about this given the likelihood of having to plan a diversion in the high stress situation of a checkride.

In order to decipher charts and maps, I think it would be ideal to be able to keep my head inside the cockpit for 10 - 15 seconds at a time. Unfortunately the airplane can wander quite a lot in that amount of time, particularly if I make the mistake of keeping a hand on the yoke while I'm not paying attention.

One tool I've realized I have at my disposal is airspeed. My impression is that at low AoA(high airspeed), there's actually a larger range of neutrally stable pitch attitudes. That is to say that without touching the trim, I can get the airplane to start descending (or climbing) completely hands off just by giving the yoke an initial nudge. Confirm/deny? Does anyone have a particular airspeed that they like to use for circling?

I do have PC, but I don't think there's enough roll trim to hold even, say, a 15 degree bank angle. I will go experiment with that soon. What is a good stable bank angle for circling?

NOTE: NOT the Instrument checkride. I am but the humblest PPL student.

Edited August 18, 2016 by Conrad

[Hank]

I don't generally "circle," but like to fly my holds slowly, ~105 mph (90knots). I find trim to be more sensitive at cruise speed, where I can descend by leaning forward, climb by reaching into the back seat, or turn right by leaning right. (There's not much room for me to lean left.  ) it is handy when I get a hundred feet or so off to nudge the yoke to correct back.

PC won't be very good for holding a bank angle, it is supposed to keep wings level and sort of hold a heading. Roll trim is provided to help an out of balance plane fly in a straight line (my wife weighs less than me, so we balance pretty poorly, especially if I don't pay attention and take off on the right tank).

[RLCarter]

If I read this correct you are wanting circle so that you look a chart? Circling will not give you anytime to look at anything, If your going for your IR ck ride you wont have much time in the "Holding Pattern" either, the best time to gather your thoughts or doing something than "Fly the Airplane" is "Straight & Level Flight"

[1964-M20E]

Holding patterns do not give you much time to think but it's there a minute is longer than you realize and flying 3 or 4 approaches in a row is very grueling when training for your IR.  When you are doing your practice do 2 approaches and then throw in a holding patter and do about 5 laps.

 

Yes in cruise you do have a lot of time to set up everything and ATC usually gives you what approach to expect 40 or 50 miles out.

[Conrad]

Not the IR checkride, just the PPL one. We're not talking holds here, just time to gather information and make plans if that is needed. Especially with all the airspace around me, sometimes I've found the need to do it.

[midlifeflyer]

Conrad, it seems to me you have discovered the deepest darkest unknown secret for pilots who fly faster airplanes. Need more time? Slow down! It applies to both VFR and IFR pilots equally. And sure, circling may also be a way to buy more time without taking up more space.

The only qualm I have is with the idea that you want to be heads down in the cockpit for 10-15 seconds at a time. There is no "good time" for that. In visual conditions, you need to look for traffic. In any conditions, you need to monitor you flight attitude and maintain situational awareness. Even if you have an autopilot. When I teach instruments, I teach a 3-second rule - don't leave the attitude instruments for more than 3 seconds at a time. Same really goes for VFR as well.

It sounds like you are anticipating an extended flight planning episode. A diversion to an unplanned airport should not be a huge, involved process. My suggestion is to talk with your CFI about developing an efficient process for obtaining the necessary information. (One of the most common pilot errors I see is doing too much work)

You mention you have sometimes found the need for a diversion? What were the situations? What information did you need other than location, frequencies, pattern direction for a nontowered airport, pattern altitude? What tools do you have, both inside and outside the cockpit to obtain that information?

[Bob - S50]

One other way to buy time is preflight planning.  Flying IFR to an airport?  Look at all the approaches you might fly before you head to the airport.  Anything unusual?  Steep descent required?  Course change at the FAF?  Odd missed approach?  Restrictions in the notes?

Flying there when an alternate is required?  Do the same thing for your alternate airport.  And when picking an alternate, don't pick one that is 10 miles away.  If the weather goes down at your destination, it will probably be down at your alternate too.  If you pick one at least 25 miles away, and you do as midlifeflyer said and fly slowly, it should give you plenty of time to load and review the approach enroute.

If you aren't ready when you get there you can always ask ATC for delaying vectors or a long final.

[Conrad]

I don't think I get to pick my own diversion on a checkride.

[Marcopolo]

No, sometimes you don't get to pick your diversion airport, but you definitely don't get the luxury of 10-15 seconds head down time while flying VFR.  Your location does make things a little bit more difficult but you should also know the area quite well by the time you take your PPL checkride.  Understand that you should not be diverting to an airport close to the destination that the DPE has you planning for, you will normally divert within a couple of checkpoint after leaving the airport of origin.  The examiner would much rather you look quickly at a chart (paper or digital) and head in the general direction, slow down if needed, and then once pointed in the general direction you can start working out the particulars a few seconds at a time.  Once the new route is found and a course correction (if needed) is made, then the airspeed, ETE, and fuel needed can be done at liesure.  Nothing in the ACS says you have to fly as fast as possible or that the checkride needs to be completed within a certain amount of time.  Fly slow, enjoy it, less pressure and more time to learn little things from the DPE as you have time to converse.

 

Just my .02 as a newly minted PPL

 

Ron

[carusoam]

Conrad,

you're getting funny!  

How much time is required for you to get briefed on a VFR flight?

Most of this is a memory skill.  Some of us have less memory than others....

Tuning in an ATIS from 20 miles out at full speed, writing down the details you want, Is not that complex or time consuming.

The iPad apps make this incredibly easy to have proper data ready.

ADSB weather is helpful when ATIS data isn't available...

multi-tasking skills are good too.  No heads down circling near an airport at low altitudes is going to make sense.

it really helps to know what you need, where you are going to get it, and when it is going to be available.

Practice, practice, practice...

Getting data off the iPad using WingX from the kitchen table for various airports gets pretty easy.  Do it while looking out the window and drinking coffee...then take it to the airport.

have clipboard loaded with blank paper and pencil ready to copy...

develop a plan of what radio frequencies go into what locations on your radios...  Approach, tower, ATIS, ground...

Adjust your speed until your cognitive skills can get ahead of the plane.

Is this what we are discussing?

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

I would expect you are going to make a lot of choices on a check ride.  Your ability to select wisely is what is being tested.  As is your ability to fly the plane, not have an AP working.

Similar to selecting a field for the expected engine-out landing...  They aren't going to pull the throttle and say 'land in that field over there...'

Be ready to say what you are selecting and why you are choosing it, just prior to doing it.  Don't pause for effect.  You're not looking for approval of an idea on the check ride.  This method is called verbal mediation.  Yep it has a name....

PP ideas only, not a CFI or cognitive therapist.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

I don't think I get to pick my own diversion on a checkride.

I mentored a student who was challenged in the diversion category. In fact, he would get lost fairly easily. I understand where you are headed with the circling concept. His instructor taught him to circle due to the fact we are surrounded by controlled airspace including the SFRA and a few Class B & Ds.

The main focus of this technique was to give him enough time to figure out where he was instead of meandering into someone's airspace. He still got lost, but at least he wasn't encroaching on an airspace.

I think you probably want to look at this two ways. One being dealing with the check ride and the second what happens in the real world after the check ride. For the check ride, you will be flying within a circle of your test origin location. Most of the DPEs I know provide the student the destination before the flight test. You won't be diverted to an airport too far away from your check ride destination.

The after check ride reality is that at some point you will need to modify your intended flight plan. Telling a controller who is watching you on VFR Flight Following that you need to circle is certainly doable, but I think the real skills needed are what are mentioned by others (better pre-flight planning and a strategy for the "what if" scenarios that happen). The same holds true for IFR "what if" planning.

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[glafaille]

Conrad-

There is a very good reason why C-172s are often used as instrument trainers, they are very stable, simple and slow.  All of these things combine into a learning experience where the student can spend less time flying and more time thinking.  Learning to fly instruments in a complex high performance aircraft like a Mooney would be challenging for anyone.   Especially without a good autopilot.  

There is simply a lot more to remember with a complex airplane.   Simple and slow is good, it allows your brain to catch up with the airplane.  Complex and fast, not as good for learning, too easy to get behind the airplane.

GPS systems can reduce workload but they can also greatly INCREASE workload, especially when the best laid plans change, like during a missed approach or diversion.  Things were much simpler when all you had to do was set the next frequency in the VOR, tune the CDI and off you went.  GPS can be a help or a hindrance so be careful.

After 40 years of flying, I can tell you that the secret is to find ways to simplify the task by minimizing the steps.  Configuring your plane to be almost as simple as a C172 would be a great first step to getting a handle on things while training. 

For instance:  Do the flaps really need to be all the way down or raised all the way up?  Does the gear have to be raised immediately on a missed approach?  Does your next approach require programming the GPS right now?  Fly at a reasonable speed in the terminal area, 90 knots is plenty.  EVERYTHING else comes AFTER flying the airplane.  

A big part of instrument flying is judgement.  Do not allow yourself to become rushed or overwhelmed.  If you are not totally prepared for the next task DON'T do it, ask for a delaying vector or a hold with 2 minute legs or longer.  Being rushed leads to mistakes and mistakes sometimes lead to bent aluminum.

Serious instrument flying requires either a serious autopilot or some serious experience.  Consider staying away from serious instrument conditions until you have one or both.

[Skates97]

I'm just a student working my way along so this might not be worth a full 2 cents... but I have to second what others have said about planning ahead. On my second XC with my CFI I knew he was going to divert me so I took a look at all the airports that would fit what was needed, far enough away that it would still be a XC flight, close enough to my original destination, etc... It actually narrowed it down to just four airports and two were private so that ruled them out and took me down to two. I read up on their procedures etc... and was ready when he diverted me.

I plan on doing the same thing prior to my check-ride which will hopefully be the 3-4th week of September. I figure that if I know what airport the DPE is originally having me plan for, that I can plan ahead and study the info for others along the route. Then at least when the DPE throws the diversion at me I will be able to quickly make the adjustment to my plan because I will have already run through the most likely possible scenarios.

[Bob - S50]

One more trick to keep in the bag.  When you are told to divert to XXX, if ATC tells you to proceed direct to some fix, don't feel like you need to instantly set up your avionics and do it on your own.  If you don't know where the fix is, ask ATC for an "initial vector while you set up your radios".  Turn to the assigned heading, slow down, trim the airplane, THEN start setting up your cockpit.

[N9201A]

Speaking as someone who's handled crying babies, sick pax and some unusual cabin antics on Vegas charter flights, I can think of no task that requires an uninterrupted 15 seconds inside the cockpit in VFR conditions, and I've not met the instrument pilot who can divert attention from their scan that long without consequence. You should be able to reach your fire extinguisher or don your oxygen mask (for high fliers) in less than 15 seconds. +1 on comments on planning ahead and setting your cockpit up so you can handle stuff without deviating from priority no. 1: Aviate! Everything else comes next.

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[Yetti]

On 8/15/2016 at 5:09 PM, Conrad said:

In order to decipher charts and maps, I think it would be ideal to be able to keep my head inside the cockpit for 10 - 15 seconds at a time. Unfortunately the airplane can wander quite a lot in that amount of time, particularly if I make the mistake of keeping a hand on the yoke while I'm not paying attention.

 

The plane will not fall from the sky if you take your hands off the yoke.  Some students (myself included) try to hold the plane in the sky with their left hand.

Your instructor should teach you to fly with your feet only.

A properly trimmed Mooney will fly for 15 minutes or so without much yoke input.   You may have to hold a little right rudder to keep it straight.