donkaye Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 5 hours ago, Steve Dawson said: Don, Why the Shadin fuel flow gauge when you also have the EVP? For a couple of reasons. First, you can get to several functions more quickly with the Shadin knob. Secondly, the one problem with the MVP-50 is that it only gives "fuel to waypoint" with no option for "fuel to destination". The Shading can be set up for "fuel to destination". Third, for redundancy. I do have other redundancy with that information on both the GTN 750 and GTN 650, but that also involves a lot more tapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 6 hours ago, Steve Dawson said: Don, Why the Shadin fuel flow gauge when you also have the EVP? Like Don's plane mine also has two fuel flow computers. Fuel level and flow rate are important enough to deserve redundant systems. At Boeing that is known as "belt and suspenders" engineering. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 Two fuel computers driven by a single tranducer is still a single fuel system. Clarence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 1 hour ago, M20Doc said: Two fuel computers driven by a single tranducer is still a single fuel system. Clarence My redundancy is related to information and quick access to it, not systems. Some would say having a second (GTN 650), third (Aera 796), or even fourth (iPad) GPS is way over the top, but different information can be presented on each, so they all serve each other well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted September 24, 2016 Report Share Posted September 24, 2016 15 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said: Like Don's plane mine also has two fuel flow computers. Fuel level and flow rate are important enough to deserve redundant systems. At Boeing that is known as "belt and suspenders" engineering. Is that 2 sensors or 2 instruments sharing one sensor? I think I could go for 2 sensors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry 5TJ Posted September 25, 2016 Report Share Posted September 25, 2016 15 hours ago, Bob_Belville said: Is that 2 sensors or 2 instruments sharing one sensor? I think I could go for 2 sensors. The former: Two FF sensors 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F-1968 Posted September 27, 2016 Report Share Posted September 27, 2016 I also have two fuel instruments with fuel information, Shadin Mini-flow L and the JPI 930. The thought when I did it was that the Shadin information is constantly visible and you do not have to do any button pushing to find it. Both are off one sensor. John Breda 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 8 hours ago, M20F-1968 said: I also have two fuel instruments with fuel information, Shadin Mini-flow L and the JPI 930. The thought when I did it was that the Shadin information is constantly visible and you do not have to do any button pushing to find it. Both are off one sensor. John Breda John, the fuel flow is constantly visible on my 930.? But I would not mind having a second sensor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M20F-1968 Posted October 6, 2016 Report Share Posted October 6, 2016 But as Don has pointed out, fuel to destination and similar data has to be searched for in the JPI. Better to have a dedicated instrument for information as important as fuel management. Also as Don points out, different information can be displayed on different screens keeping the data more readily available and thus minimizing distractions which lead to errors. John Breda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3914N Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 I'm late to the party, but recently did some modest panel work on my '68 G. Went from /U to /G with perks. Installed a 430W, GMA-340 audio panel, and 4-place intercom. Now I've got a highly-capable IFR platform with headsets for everyone and a music input for the pax on those long XC flights. I kept all the factory steam gauges and the vintage-style layout with wood grain panel cover. Not an A&P so I had to pay for the parts and labor, which ran me about 15.5 AMU. Advantages: I have a modern IFR navigation system highly capable in today's environment and a much more comfortable aircraft for my pax. Disadvantages: Still using vacuum gyros with no backup pump, no AoA, no engine monitor, no "J-style" panel. To me these are still nice-to-haves, but not required. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainAB Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 I only dream of a g1000 gfc700. Anything less ranges from reality to a nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, CaptainAB said: I only dream of a g1000 gfc700. Anything less ranges from reality to a nightmare While i like the G1000/GFC 700, I wouldn't own an airplane with one after seeing what has happened to those Mooneys with the G1000. The airplane is certified with a specific type of G1000 and can only be updated by the manufacturer, not Garmin. So, if the manufacturer chooses not to do any upgrades like Mooney and Beech, you are left with an out of date and vastly depreciated airplane. The latest model Mooney doesn't have the avionics capability of even my airplane. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted October 9, 2016 Report Share Posted October 9, 2016 The 830 can be configured to show fuel flow info in the small gauges, and the toggle switch allows you to cycle through just the fuel flow info or EGT related info. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 On 9/27/2016 at 10:09 PM, Bob_Belville said: John, the fuel flow is constantly visible on my 930.? But I would not mind having a second sensor. I will need to look under my cowling to verify the plumbing. When I had the JPI 830, fuel flow was shared by the EI FP-5L and the JPI 830. The EI had it's own fuel pressure sensor and I had the fuel line mechanical fuel pressure gauge. When I installed the JPI 900, I know my mechanic spent considerable time setting up my system so that fuel pressure is obtained by two sensors. We also talked about splitting the fuel flow and I don't recall if we did that at the same time. Usually it is just shared between units. I do see differences in pressures (not much) and I think the fuel flow would be different if the k factors are set differently for each unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 10 hours ago, Marauder said: I will need to look under my cowling to verify the plumbing. When I had the JPI 830, fuel flow was shared by the EI FP-5L and the JPI 830. The EI had it's own fuel pressure sensor and I had the fuel line mechanical fuel pressure gauge. When I installed the JPI 900, I know my mechanic spent considerable time setting up my system so that fuel pressure is obtained by two sensors. We also talked about splitting the fuel flow and I don't recall if we did that at the same time. Usually it is just shared between units. I do see differences in pressures (not much) and I think the fuel flow would be different if the k factors are set differently for each unit. Several months ago I was seeing erratic FF. The totalizator was off as well. It turned out that the sensor was not the problem but there was a tiny leak @ the fuel selector which was sucking a little air around the selector shaft. I suppose a 2nd, independent, FF sensor would have saved some trouble shooting time. If both sensors were showing the some problem we'd have ruled out the sensor. (JPI tech support pointed us to the selector valve.) ISTM a second display of the same info is much less useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris_adams Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said: Several months ago I was seeing erratic FF. The totalizator was off as well. It turned out that the sensor was not the problem but there was a tiny leak @ the fuel selector which was sucking a little air around the selector shaft. I suppose a 2nd, independent, FF sensor would have saved some trouble shooting time. If both sensors were showing the some problem we'd have ruled out the sensor. (JPI tech support pointed us to the selector valve.) ISTM a second display of the same info is much less useful. Bob, how long did this take to troubleshoot? Sounds like it could have been really difficult. Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_Belville Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Kris_Adams said: Bob, how long did this take to troubleshoot? Sounds like it could have been really difficult. Just curious. Kris, I sent flight data to JPI. Tech support apprently had seen this before and suggested the problem might be sucking air at the fuel selector shaft. He had me put a couple of drops of motor oil on the shaft. That worked to "fix" the problem so we serviced the whole mechanism during the annual which was a few weeks later. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnoe Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Kris, I sent flight data to JPI. Tech support apprently had seen this before and suggested the problem might be sucking air at the fuel selector shaft. He had me put a couple of drops of motor oil on the shaft. That worked to "fix" the problem so we serviced the whole mechanism during the annual which was a few weeks later. Very interesting. Thanks for sharing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carusoam Posted October 10, 2016 Report Share Posted October 10, 2016 Air bubbles in the line are probably going to cause similar data challenges with two sensors. Unless the two sensors vary by design. There are two things to consider possibly.... 1) The air bubbles occupy volume and get counted as fuel as they pass through... 2) An air bubble can get caught in the sensor and get counted over and over. Proper mounting of the sensor, usually mitigates this challenge. Bob's oil drop experiment worked successfully. If it didn't, pulling a few FIs and running fuel into jars may be required to see if any air is getting in the line.... PP ideas, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kris_adams Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 On 10/10/2016 at 9:12 AM, Bob_Belville said: Kris, I sent flight data to JPI. Tech support apprently had seen this before and suggested the problem might be sucking air at the fuel selector shaft. He had me put a couple of drops of motor oil on the shaft. That worked to "fix" the problem so we serviced the whole mechanism during the annual which was a few weeks later. That's super good news. Glad the JPI tech was so good. I feel a little bad about taking my JPI out (going in for an EI upgrade within the week). Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted October 12, 2016 Report Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Kris_Adams said: That's super good news. Glad the JPI tech was so good. I feel a little bad about taking my JPI out (going in for an EI upgrade within the week). Thanks! Which JPI are you removing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discus Posted December 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) OK guys, just got her back from the shop! Sorry, couldn't find room for the 8 track! Here is what she looks like: Edited December 9, 2016 by Discus 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpaul Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 52 minutes ago, Discus said: OK guys, just got her back from the shop! Sorry, couldn't find room for the 8 track! Here is what she looks like: Looks good! Did you have to keep the ASI and Altimeter as a backup with the Aspen and G5? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DXB Posted December 9, 2016 Report Share Posted December 9, 2016 55 minutes ago, Discus said: OK guys, just got her back from the shop! Sorry, couldn't find room for the 8 track! Here is what she looks like: Awesome panel - congrats! Are you using the G5 as the IFR backup AI for your Aspen PFD? There was recent discussion on an adjacent thread on whether or not the G5 can back up the Aspen legally. My avionics guy said nope - yours obviously thinks otherwise - I'm curious to know anything you might have heard on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Discus Posted December 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2016 4 hours ago, DXB said: Awesome panel - congrats! Are you using the G5 as the IFR backup AI for your Aspen PFD? There was recent discussion on an adjacent thread on whether or not the G5 can back up the Aspen legally. My avionics guy said nope - yours obviously thinks otherwise - I'm curious to know anything you might have heard on this. I asked the same question. He said it was totally legal, and showed me the paperwork backing it up. Removed my vacuum system completely. Good riddance! KPAUL, yes, the altimeter and ASI had to stay. Also, couldn't switch the Aspen to Knots since the manual is written in MPH. :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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