Transitioning from an E model to a J

[nels]

I've recently sold my E model and I've purchased a J model. The problem is the J is about a four hour flight from home so will require a airline ticket to get there. I have about 60 or 70 hrs in the E which had manual gear and hydraulic flaps where as the J is electric gear and flaps and a longer airframe. The E model time is my only time in a retractable constant speed prop plane. Should I grit my teeth and get it myself or try to get a qualified Mooney pilot friend to help me out on the maiden voyage? Two people make it more difficult as there are two time schedules to juggle and then I only want to fly it home if the weather is favorable. My insurance company has no problem with me just flying the plane home by myself. So, am I being too cautious?

 

Edited July 3, 2016 by nels

[Andy95W]

My suggestion, just MHO, is you should fly with an instructor where you get the airplane for 1-2 hours just to make sure you've got the systems figured out and then head for home in nice weather.  

Flying with the previous owner could also be very helpful, if he's willing, so then you could get information about any unique quirks the airplane has and you can get model specific operating techniques.

Then head for home, by yourself, in nice weather.  You'll enjoy the one-on-one time with your new bird.

[carusoam]

People use transition training because it just makes good sense.  

Who are you going to turn to and ask...  'Is that normal?'  Or  'is that supposed to do that?'

I feel more comfortable when I have spent too much getting too little...  (Everything works as expected)

It is better than saving a few bucks to feel uncomfortable.

I went from C to R.  They aren't much different from each other.  Just a few percent in every way.

You already know how you feel about the question, just by asking it.

Did I say to err on the cautious side is good thinking for aviation?

Now the CB in me says, what else can I get while I am paying a Mooney specific transition trainer to help me move my plane for a few hours..?  BFR, or IFR currency.

Best regards,

-a-

[M016576]

39 minutes ago, nels said:

I've recently sold my E model and I've purchased a J model. The problem is the J is about a four hour flight from home so will require a airline ticket to get there. I have about 60 or 70 hrs in the E which had manual gear and hydraulic flaps where as the J is electric gear and flaps and a longer airframe. The E model time is my only time in a retractable constant speed prop plane. Should I grit my teeth and get it myself or try to get a qualified Mooney pilot friend to help me out on the maiden voyage? Two people make it more difficult as there are two time schedules to juggle and then I only want to fly it home if the weather is favorable. My insurance company has no problem with me just flying the plane home by myself. So, am I being too cautious?

 

Congrats on the new J!

If you're concerned, even in the slightest, find an instructor to ride shotgun... But...

the airplanes (E vs. J) are very similar.  They fly very similar (as do all mooney's), as well (same wing, same motor, same push pull rod design, etc). CG and weight are slightly different, but not appreciably.  You would not be making a foolish or unsafe decision IMO by flying it solo.  If it were me, I would fly it back without hesitation, solo (VFR... But not IFR until I was comfortable with the panel and had shot a couple practice approaches).

some feel there is a great difference between mooney models: personally I see the greatest difference primarily between power plants and panels.  So long as your power plant is the same, and you are comfortable with the panel, the mooney will fly how you'd expect: just like a mooney.

while that's my opinion, we probably don't have the same background in aviation (I doubt any two mooney spacers do!):  if you really are having doubts- piece of mind may be worth it to hire an instructor or bring along a pilot that has experience in a J model.  Any thought to taking a test flight with the previous owner so he can show you the ropes?  Just a thought.  Good luck!

 

 

[carusoam]

There are probably bigger differences with Mooney pilots than there are with Mooney planes!  

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

When I purchased my Mooney, I had exactly 10 hours of J time and 0 hours in an F. That said, I had hundreds of hours in Cessnas and Pipers.

Fortunately for me, the person selling me the Mooney was an instructor and gave me 3 hours of "F" transition time as part of the sale. The F and J were similar but lower gear speeds and the layout of switches and knobs did take some time to get used to.

I would get some checkout time just to make sure you understand the systems and avionics.

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[Tx_Aggie]

My two cents - I think you're being a bit too cautious. Powerplants are similar and if anything the panel is easier to configure with electric gear/flaps/ Etc. However if you were moving from a C to and R or other long body/ larger power plant, it would be wise to bring a companion. 

[Loogie]

What you need is "differences" training, not transition.  The a/c is similar enought that your knowledge will transfer to flying he machine.  What you need help with is all the differences.  Starting from normals to non-normal procedures.  Review the POH, make sure you are comfortable with all the procedures, and with non-normal stuff like glide speed, emergency gear extension, electrical problems, what do the annunciator lights mean? Etc. you definitely need help with that, someone who is familiar with that plane should share that with you.  You will be better prepared to fly it home if you are comfortable to deal w all those contingencies.  Remember a plane doesn't care it's you first hour in it, if something weird happens you want to have already thought about it at least...

 

[nels]

2 hours ago, Loogie said:

What you need is "differences" training, not transition.  The a/c is similar enought that your knowledge will transfer to flying he machine.  What you need help with is all the differences.  Starting from normals to non-normal procedures.  Review the POH, make sure you are comfortable with all the procedures, and with non-normal stuff like glide speed, emergency gear extension, electrical problems, what do the annunciator lights mean? Etc. you definitely need help with that, someone who is familiar with that plane should share that with you.  You will be better prepared to fly it home if you are comfortable to deal w all those contingencies.  Remember a plane doesn't care it's you first hour in it, if something weird happens you want to have already thought about it at least...

I agree; if I decide to go it alone I will spend plenty of time going over the pilots manual. 

[Bob - S50]

Since you are switching from a Johnson bar to electric, one thing to remember is you have to pull the gear handle out slightly before moving it up or down.  If you don't, and force it, you can break it.

[bonal]

25 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

Since you are switching from a Johnson bar to electric, one thing to remember is you have to pull the gear handle out slightly before moving it up or down.  If you don't, and force it, you can break it.

I was just going to say that. Is there any reason the seller can't spend an hour or so with. You know the general stuff but the seller knows this one personally.

Some before and after pics would be nice.

[nels]

7 minutes ago, bonal said:

I was just going to say that. Is there any reason the seller can't spend an hour or so with. You know the general stuff but the seller knows this one personally.

Some before and after pics would be nice.

The prior owner is deceased and I bought it from his estate. He flew it very little and his son, who negotiated the sale, had never been in it. So, very little info except what the mechanic could tell me. 

[nels]

51 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

Since you are switching from a Johnson bar to electric, one thing to remember is you have to pull the gear handle out slightly before moving it up or down.  If you don't, and force it, you can break it.

Good thought on the gear switch. Just one of those simple things that might be misunderstood when time is of the essence and then panic ensues. 

[bonal]

Mine was also an estate sale but I had no complex time so flew my CFI down and he flew it back and as a Mooney ferry pilot was able to provide a list of things it needed. I took it for a test flight with a pilot before I bought it and that was interesting since he put me in the left seat. First time using the manual gear made for an interesting take off to say the least.

[Oldguy]

Not knowing where you are, have you considered seeing if there is a capable Mooney instructor nearby the J's current location that might spend a couple of hours with you on the differences between the two planes? Or even another Mooneyspacer who would sit in it with you and answer questions you might have before you launched?

[gsxrpilot]

I'd go do a really good pre-flight, make sure it's got fresh fuel and oil, then take it up around the pattern a few times. If everything looks good, I'd head home with it. 

[bradp]

Review POH 

Know speeds and non-normal procedures.  Respect the flap extension speeds in particular.  You can crack the $$ mount where it joins the frame if you make a habit of ignoring.  

Most important differences are related to gear / flaps.  Flaps are electric and simple.  You need to know the emergency gear extension procedure and practice it once or twice to get a feel for it.   If there's an autopilot, you may be able to do this by yourself.  Otherwise an instructor or safety pilot will be a good idea for this procedure alone.  It takes a lot (more or less) of turns depending on the gear ratio.  You should know not only the muscle memory for how to wind the gear down but understand troubleshooting and how it works.  You should know how and when the gear bypass switch is used (mostly during retract test during annual).  .  

For me the previous owners instructor did my transition training and had me fly with no autopilot under the hood on a simulated IFR heading and altitude while cranking the gear down.   It was to make a point and point was taken.  It's not easy when there are other tasks.  

 

[mooniac15u]

Only the very early J's have the crank system. The rest have a pullcord system between the seats. It is somewhat delicate and expensive to repair (see recent thread by @Hyett6420). It is probably best to try the emergency extension with the plane on jacks to help prevent damaging it. 

[dooleypster]

Where are you? and where is your new J?  A current and qualified J driver from this list could give you a good briefing in the plane and ride along to your home drone.  Possibly a volunteer is available.

[rbridges]

see what your insurance company says.  

[Bob_Belville]

6 minutes ago, rbridges said:

see what your insurance company says.  

Did you read the OP?  "My insurance company has no problem with me just flying the plane home by myself. So, am I being too cautious?"

[Brandontwalker]

I did my Mooney transition training in a E. Flew cross country via Southwest and brought my J home solo. The flight characteristics of these planes are the same. Know the V speeds, emergency procedures, radios and autopilot in your new bird. Study their operation manuals. Aside from that, you just need to assure you are not blinded by the ear-to-ear grin the new J puts on your face.

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[rbridges]

10 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

Did you read the OP?  "My insurance company has no problem with me just flying the plane home by myself. So, am I being too cautious?"

Long day, I totally missed that part.  

[1964-M20E]

I went for the E to an F model no problems not transition training but I also had the same manual gear and flaps.  Arrive early on that great day and have good weather to fly home in.  You do not want to deal with bad WX and learning the new plane.

Sit in the plane for a while looking over where everything and do some hanger flying making motor sounds and make believe ATC radio calls selecting both radios etc.  Not much different when you go get a rental car at an airport you sit in it get orientated adjust the mirrors etc.

[nels]

I've talked to the CFI/friend that transitioned me from a C150 to my old E model. I am getting close to needing my biannual flight review. He is willing to drive to Mn in a rental car with me and fly back to Kluk and combine the trip back with my biannual flight review. I think this will work out well. One of the biggest problems I had was imposing on him to make such a trip along with the apprehension of making the trip back alone in an unfamiliar/new to me airplane. Reading all the posts certainly gave me confidence that I could do the trip alone and gave great suggestions on what to do before the attempt. I appreciate all the suggestions, that is for certain. Thanks!