Your TKS experiences??

[thinwing]

Last wed ,we had a very challenging flight .Inflight icing that saw acretion even with tks system on max.We pretty much were in and out of icing conditions for about an hour and due to military airspace could not deviate to known better conditions.Finally as we noted 406b fluid levels depleted down to under 1 gal left but got our clearance out of icing conditions before I had to declare an emergency.Flight conditions were -29 celsius,level 19000 on a flight from ksac to ksgu.Would appreciate comments/experiences from other TKS users..thanks kp couch

[Skywarrior]

I have used my TKS only one time, and just to see if it worked. Ran it for about 5 minutes, noticed the distribution of the fluid was very uneven along the wing. Some areas kinda wet, most areas dry.

 

I will have it checked out - perhaps there is congealed fluid in the pinholes.

 

Chuck M.

'91 Bravo

[blacknchrome]

There aren't a ton of us that have TKS on this board.  We haven't had our Bravo a full winter yet to have too many chances to use it, and the only time I picked up any ice so far was so short-lived I could see the sun shining on the other side of the cloud so I didn't bother turning on the pumps.  The ferry pilot of our bird said he flew it in freezing rain for over an hour...that's a little bold, but he said the airplane handled it fine. 

[roundout]

Did you turn on the TKS before entering the icing conditions? It's good for anti-ice but not so good at de-ice. It can de-ice small amounts but it takes a lot of fluid and a lot of time. I would think that with ice accreting and the TKS not keeping up I would have declared an emergency straight away. 

[Piloto]

On a ferry flight from Reykjavic to Exeter UK  in icing conditions I had to turn the TKS off in fear that I would not have enough liquid to de-ice the windshield for landing, and I was using the low pump setting. The drawback of the TKS is that is no good for long duration icing conditions and you can not allow ice build up (it plugs the discharge holes) otherwise it takes for ever to de-ice the wing. Unlike the pneumatic/hot plate type that instanly de-ice the wing and no need to worry about running out of liquid. For what it cost and the payload penalty (100lb) for me is not worth it. I found that Mooneys with no TKS can handle ice accumulation with no serious safety issue but loss of airspeed.

José 

[thinwing]

Yes,we turned it on prior to launching IFR...I notice the system flashes "low pressure"when you first turn it on after not using it for a while ,than indicates max after 4/5 min of priming it....Jose,I can only imagine having to turn system off to conserve for later..which was basically my option...get very direct with salt lake center about the need for diversion now because I did not know how much fluid I would need for the approach into st george.I assume you were over the atlantic and discended to lower/warmer air.I have been told that the mooney wing is pretty unforgiving of ice ,so your observation of it being able to handle buildup is good to hear about........kp couch

[Piloto]

TKS is not applicable to the regular aircraft that flies in the northern latitudes in frequent icing conditions. Besides having to have the reservour full you need to carry extra 50lb containers to fill up when you land. Not all places in Canada and Europe have de-icing fluid in stock. Besides the extra carry-on containers takes away your useful load. TKS is definetly not the system for these latitudes. I have not seen any safety issue with up to 1" of leading edge ice accumulation but substantial drop in IAS (10 to 15kts). On one ocassion the IAS went to zero and the airplane started to shake and an alarm sounded off. At first I thought I was in a stall but it turn out I was not. The shaking was due to prop icing and the alarm was the landing gear alarm that comes up when IAS speed is low. Turn on pitot heat and problem resolved. I also found that if you have ice on the windshield open the defrost and cabin heat to max and it will clear a small area above the glareshield enough for landing. Just make sure the hoses are connected to the louvers. Best way is to avoid icing.

José          

[N201MKTurbo]

There has been a two occasions that I took a credit card out of my wallet, reached my arm out of the window and scraped ice off so I could land. I've also landed just looking out the open side window. Oh to be young and foolish again!

[thinwing]

When I landed at st george.the fbo was pointing out the fluid trail we left as we taxied to parking.We left a plane shaped outline on the ramp.They refueled us and also filled tks tank out of a 55 gal drum...said they had a quite a few cirrus and other mooneys that used it ,henced they always had it.I for one am glad we had it....icng up enough to throw prop ice is not my idea of fun.Out west,we would never fly out of the valley anytime forcast called for mountain obscuration due to high meas guranteeing a forcast of icing in cloud...kpc

[roundout]

Quote: Piloto

On one ocassion the IAS went to zero and the airplane started to shake and an alarm sounded off. At first I thought I was in a stall but it turn out I was not. The shaking was due to prop icing and the alarm was the landing gear alarm that comes up when IAS speed is low. Turn on pitot heat and problem resolved. I also found that if you have ice on the windshield open the defrost and cabin heat to max and it will clear a small area above the glareshield enough for landing. Just make sure the hoses are connected to the louvers. 

[N513ZM]

Quote: Skywarrior

I have used my TKS only one time, and just to see if it worked. Ran it for about 5 minutes, noticed the distribution of the fluid was very uneven along the wing. Some areas kinda wet, most areas dry.

 

I will have it checked out - perhaps there is congealed fluid in the pinholes.

 

Chuck M.

'91 Bravo

[Skywarrior]

Quote: N513ZM

Chuck- you need to run your TKS at least twice a month to ensure that the panels stay wetted. The panels contain a foam substance behind a membrane - if the foam dries out it can be difficult to get it to re-wet without purging and repriming the system with a special high pressure tank you can rent from CAV. Also - the system works best when in cold temps - above 40f the fluid flows too freely to get to the ends of the panels.

I would have your system purged and primed - flying in icing conditions with panels that are not putting out fluid might be somewhat interesting..

Mike

N513ZM FIKI

[RobertoTohme]

When I had my Acclaim I did quite a bit of flights where icing was an issue during climbs and descents to/from the flight levels, but nevre got to a point that the system couldn't handle it.  Since I used the system often, I guess that it kept well primed year round since I never saw uneven weep across the wings or tail....  Of course, those were never severe icing conditions either as you may get up north.  The biggest drawback I see with TKS is the limited supply of fluid, but other than that, the system works; for reference, older Hawkers (125's) relied on TKS for anticing-deicing, and that's a part 25 certified aircraft....

[Awful_Charlie]

I'm a TKS user - about 10-20galls a year for 100-150 hours.  As previously noted, you need to run the system once in a while to keep the membranes wet, so I it turn it on once a month or so if there's been no need to use it in the interim.  I tend to do this in the cruise on the outbound flight, so it doesn't drip it on my hangar floor when I get home!  Running it when the temperature is warm means the fluid is too thin to get all the way through the panels, and doesn't seem to be as effective to get to all the membrane.  I'm normally using it to get through a layer and climb on top, and then again to descend back down again.

You really need to have the panels primed before going into icing conditions.  Without this you are going to have a tough time getting the ice to shed until you get out of freezing conditions.  If need be, I'll prime on the ground before despatch, and then top up before I start up to launch, as a good prime can get through 1/2 gallon if it hasn't been used for a while.  I might then lob a 5 litre bottle in the baggage bay so I can get to somewhere that sells it if I'm going more than an hour or two from my home base (It's not that common over here, and even more difficult outside M-F 9-5)

For the OP, surprised you were getting problems at -29C, there's not a lot of moisture left at those temperatures, the worst range seems to be in the 0 to -10 area, but if you're into freezing rain, then all bets are off, to the point the system might not be able to cope with it at all - then it is time to get out and fast, even to the point of declaring an emergency.  I would normally be looking to get through the bad range and into -15 or colder to reduce the icing and hence the fluid usage.  Having got out of the high risk zone, I'll then cycle the pump between normal and off if still in IMC to keep the tail totally clear and the system primed ready for a descent, but monitor the build up on the landing lights and wing tips.  The drawback of going high this time of year seems to be that  the Bravo heater struggles to keep up when you get into colder than -40 or so, and then getting ice on the inside of the screens and windows starts to become an issue, wish someone had an easy fix for this - anyone?

[Mcstealth]

The drawback of going high this time of year seems to be that  the Bravo heater struggles to keep up when you get into colder than -40 or so, and then getting ice on the inside of the screens and windows starts to become an issue, wish someone had an easy fix for this - anyone?

Don't have this problem in Southwest Texas :)

[thinwing]

I too was surprised how much accretion was occurring at 19k and -29c...I also thought air temp was too cold to hold too much liquid water.I than mentioned this to a 757 pilot and his ops book uses -45c for potential icing in cloud.As an aside he also mentioned that these big boeings have no icing protection at all on their tailplanes!!!,...Just engine bleed air for the wings...also I can also relate that the Bravo heater is minimal at -29c...the gf was freezing on that flight...kpc

[richardheitzman]

Guys if you don't know about your $40K TKS system then please contact CAV and get the operators manual. You need to operate the system twice a month at least and DO NOT use ANY type of chemical to clean the TKS panel. The best way to clean it is to operate the system and use the TKS fluid to wipe away the bugs. The panel pores are micoscopic so they don't get clogged unless they are damaged by chemicals or abrasive materials. If the fluid is coming out irregually then you have an issue with that panel and it needs to be looked at. Replacing a panel is VERY expensive and time consuming.

The attractive TKS^TM system requires a minimum of upkeep. As the system is used, it flushes out any accumulation of debris on the panels. Glycol, the main ingredient of the ice protection fluid, has cleaning properties and will not harm the paint finish on the aircraft (from CAV website)

Porous, laser drilled titanium panels are installed on the leading edges of the wings, and horizontal and vertical stabilizers. A slinger ring is installed on the propeller and a spray bar is positioned on the windshield for protection. A glycol based fluid is exuded through the panels and flows over these surfaces keeping the aircraft virtually ice free. The fluid flow virtually eliminates runback ice on the protected surfaces. (from CAV website)

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