ELT Recommendations

[Marauder]

On 6/3/2016 at 0:09 PM, Marauder said: Howdy -- my plane is in for annual and my Ameri-King 451 has failed. I noticed there is an FAA action against Ameri-King which specifically talks about removing them when found! What options are out there. I believe mine is not a 406 version. Any recommendations?

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/upn/media/2016/UPN_2016-2013NM460018.pdf

http://avstop.com/march_2016/faa_issues_public_notification_against_ameri_king_corp.htm

 

BTW Chris if you want to delay the 406 purchase this year, you can have my old 121.5 ELT.  It just needs a new battery and should work fine.

Hey Dev, I may take you up on that offer. Do you know which model you have? If it is a drop in replacement, I am certainly interested.

I got surprised with a couple of items I didn't expect this year and having to replace my ELT was another unexpected expense.

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[Piloto]

54 minutes ago, gsengle said:

 

A 406mhz gps equipped beacon is more accurate that cell phone triangulation. A 406mhz beacon is picked up by satellites and confirms a crash complete with your tail number instantly. They'd have to go digging for your cell number after they realize you have a problem. And finally most of this big country is out of cell phone range. The crash that started these upgrades was a lear jet that went down in kind of a known position within 20 miles of the airport... and still wasn't found for YEARS. It's a big world out there as us pilots know.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_Hampshire_Learjet_crash

 

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The ELT satellites are in view once every 60 minutes. It could be an hour before the signal is received by the satellite. But if you are on an IFR flight plan the last transponder reply will be much quicker and accurate than any ELT. A 911 call will get the sheriff to you before the ELT satellite see you.

Having an ELT on the above accident would not have changed the outcome.

José

Edited June 5, 2016 by Piloto

[gsengle]

Near instantaneous...

http://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/406vs121.pdf

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[flyboy0681]

What effect will being ADS-B compliant have since the GPS position is broadcast?

[DXB]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

Hey Dev, I may take you up on that offer. Do you know which model you have? If it is a drop in replacement, I am certainly interested.

I got surprised with a couple of items I didn't expect this year and having to replace my ELT was another unexpected expense.

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It's the EBC-102A with G7 impact activator.  It was installed in my plane by being tacked with a couple screws to the side of the baggage compartment (requires no connection to anything), so would be trivial to install and would make you legal.  Needs new battery, but it definitely was working on test when I played with with it after removal.   Pictured here:

If you want it, I think you still have my phone number? Just txt me your address and I'll send to you tomorrow for price of shipping...

[gsengle]

What effect will being ADS-B compliant have since the GPS position is broadcast?

As long as you're in range of ATC radars, or ADS-B receivers, they'll have your last position accurately, but that can still mean you went down in 100 square miles...

Say you go off radar at 4000ft, how far can you travel from the last position they got? Square that.

Also, going off radar unless on a flight plan, alerts no one.

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[1964-M20E]

On 6/4/2016 at 11:02 AM, Marauder said:

So, I see two recommendations above. Any of you have these units in your plane?

Artex ELT 345

ACK E-04

I want a reasonable replacement for what I have. Reading over the installation for both of these products, it looks like a GPS connection needs to be made which will add more installation costs. Anyone do the upgrade and can give me a sense of what I will be in for?

 

I just had the Artex ELT 345 one installed in my plane in march.  So far so good  new GPS is connected to it as well.

 

I hope never to have to use it.

 

[Marauder]

22 hours ago, DXB said:

BTW Chris if you want to delay the 406 purchase this year, you can have my old 121.5 ELT.  It just needs a new battery and should work fine.

Hey Dev -- thanks for the offer. I spoke with the shop this morning and have worked out a solution. The biggest expense outside of the unit itself is the labor involved in running the connection to the GPS. I learned that the GPS does not need to be connected immediately. This will save me the labor of them pulling my interior to run this wire. I will have it connected up later this year when I have the interior out for renovation. Thanks again for the offer!

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

On June 5, 2016 at 6:12 PM, Piloto said:

The ELT satellites are in view once every 60 minutes. It could be an hour before the signal is received by the satellite.

That's not quite the whole story.  There are several scenarios and several different orbital platforms carrying the receivers. 

First case -- your 406 ELT has a valid GPS location.  The GPS data may come from your panel-mounted WAAS GPS, or from a GPS receiver in the ELT.  In this case your ID plus Lat/long position are encoded in the transmission.  Receivers in ANY COSPAS-SARSAT equipped satellite, either low orbiting or geo-synchronous, relay your ID and location with nearly zero delay.  The geo-synchronous receivers cover the earth, full time, up to Arctic latitudes.   Or a low- orbit bird may hear the first transmitted burst from your ELT.  Either way your info is dispatched in minutes.  Only one data burst need get through.  

A second case -- your 406 ELT is NOT connected to a GPS receiver.  Now the distress 406 MHz signal still contains your ID (you did register it with NOAA, yes?) but no Lat/long position.  The low-orbiting COSPAS-SARSAT platforms, moving across the sky rapidly, use Doppler processing to locate you on the ground.  Your 406 ELT transmits a new burst every 50 seconds (assuming it did not sink or burn or otherwise stop working) for as long as the battery lasts, which should be several days.  It may take several hours, and several COSPAS-SARSAT satellite  passes, to refine your location.  

Take-away message: Either hook your 406 ELT to a WAAS GPS receiver, or get an ELT with internal GPS.

*****************

Nerd Space:  Check out this graph of ELT rescues versus time.   Two things to note.  One, 121.5 monitoring stopped in 2009.  Two, even in early years when 121.5 beacons far outnumbered 406 ELTs the latter had significant impact.  About 2,000 persons are rescued every year aided by 406 beacons. (About 3/4 are maritime events)

 

And then the same report shows this -- a graph of events comparing total 406 ELT messages with those where the 406 ELT provided the ONLY or sole information.  About 20% in recent years are 406 ELT (or 406 PRB) alone. 

 

 

Reference:. COSPAS-SARSAT System Documents

[1964-M20E]

While I like the 406 ELT with GPS this makes the CAP job too easy now.  I have spent hours in the woods tracking down a practice ELT 121.5 signal with directional receivers.  This take all the fun out of it. 

[TMac]

ELT

[xcrmckenna]

Hey Dev -- thanks for the offer. I spoke with the shop this morning and have worked out a solution. The biggest expense outside of the unit itself is the labor involved in running the connection to the GPS. I learned that the GPS does not need to be connected immediately. This will save me the labor of them pulling my interior to run this wire. I will have it connected up later this year when I have the interior out for renovation. Thanks again for the offer!
 

Hey Marauder, I was wondering what elt you ended up installing?


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[Marauder]

46 minutes ago, xcrmckenna said:

Hey Marauder, I was wondering what elt you ended up installing?


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