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Howdy -- my plane is in for annual and my Ameri-King 451 has failed. I noticed there is an FAA action against Ameri-King which specifically talks about removing them when found! What options are out there. I believe mine is not a 406 version. Any recommendations?

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/upn/media/2016/UPN_2016-2013NM460018.pdf

http://avstop.com/march_2016/faa_issues_public_notification_against_ameri_king_corp.htm

 

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ACK-406. Affordable, supports a GPS interface to your panel GPS (thus no extra GPS antenna) and is dual band (121.5 and 406). You would like to think that with a 406 GPS provided coordinates that the 121.5 is of no value. But they still use 121.5 as a homing signal till they've found you.

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9 hours ago, Marauder said:

Howdy -- my plane is in for annual and my Ameri-King 451 has failed. I noticed there is an FAA action against Ameri-King which specifically talks about removing them when found! What options are out there. I believe mine is not a 406 version. Any recommendations?

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/upn/media/2016/UPN_2016-2013NM460018.pdf

http://avstop.com/march_2016/faa_issues_public_notification_against_ameri_king_corp.htm

 

The new Artex 345 is approved and is a simple installation.

Clarence

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Clarence's recommendation...

https://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/elts-general-aviation/elt-345/#sthash.GeoADLCY.dpbs

1) 406 and 121.5

2) connects to a GPS source

3) has an antenna, for a plastic faring like the O has, requires some rivets to be removed...

Best regards,

-a-

Do we actually know if the new 345 is approved for the horizontal dorsal fin antenna? Only they or Mooney can do that. That would be very nice if so.

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So, I see two recommendations above. Any of you have these units in your plane?

Artex ELT 345

ACK E-04

I want a reasonable replacement for what I have. Reading over the installation for both of these products, it looks like a GPS connection needs to be made which will add more installation costs. Anyone do the upgrade and can give me a sense of what I will be in for?

 

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8 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I suggest a 406-only ELT.  

Adding legacy 121.5 output just adds more hardware that can fail annual inspection..  

 

 

Jerry -- the ones I am seeing have both freqs. I see it described as the 121.5 is used for "homing" and the 406 for "locating". Not sure that is all marketing or if there is something of benefit to having both freqs.

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If the 406 transmission has GPS data the searchers should know your location. I doubt 121.5 homing is used today. 

I put this ELT in the C model:

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/elts_zelt/aircraftspruceelt.php

It is reviewed in the September 2012 Mooney Flyer at

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/issues/MooneyFlyerSeptember2012.pdf

For disclosure: I wrote the review.

This ELT is an all-inclusive box, only wiring is to panel control switch. Antenna is an odd blade with both GPS and 406 built in. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Hyett6420 said:

Hi

Both frequencies are critical.   The Frequencies are used once they are "over," your location and using the equipment in their choppers etc they QDM onto the signal in effect.  The "other"  frequency is gently replacing the 121.5 frequency, BUt 121.5 is still used by some rescuers, so you dont want to be lost and not found because you decided not to have 121.5 amd the chopper looking for you only has that on board.  Imagine yourself in a rubber dinghy in the cold atlantic!  Cost then becomes no option.

I would also recommend that you have a personal locator beacon.  This is on YOU not your plane, so if you go down in water and are fortunate to survive and get into a life raft etc then you can be found.  Also useful for everyday stuff like hiking if you fall and  and break a leg etc.  

The ELT automatically activates on impact, it sends the aircraft reg, home address, location (GPS coords) of impact to all relevant satellites which then send the data to the nearest central emergency centre for the country where you are down.  For example if i activated my PLB or ELT in Norway for example, then the authorities in central Europe would get informed who would then pass it to Norway, then to the closest rescue centre for where I am.  The choppers or whatever would then go to the coordinates sent by the ELT and would use the 406 or 121.5 transmissions to home exactly onto the target.    

Not sure any of that makes sense but i hope it does.  As a yachtsman i have used ELTs to find me when i went overboard so they do work VERY well. :)  

Andrew

 

When you are overwater the best to have is a marine handheld radio with channel 16. That big cruise ship may not see you but will certainly hear your call on ch 16. I have an ICOM 706 with marine frequencies onboard and a marine handheld for the raft. On long overwater flights it breaks the monotony talking to sailboats, yachts, fishing boats and others. As per latest FCC/ITU rules it is perfectly legal to transmit on marine frequencies at any altitude.

José  

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6 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

If the 406 transmission has GPS data the searchers should know your location. I doubt 121.5 homing is used today. 

I put this ELT in the C model:

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/elts_zelt/aircraftspruceelt.php

It is reviewed in the September 2012 Mooney Flyer at

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/issues/MooneyFlyerSeptember2012.pdf

For disclosure: I wrote the review.

This ELT is an all-inclusive box, only wiring is to panel control switch. Antenna is an odd blade with both GPS and 406 built in. 

 

 

406 & 121.5 Mhz

https://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/elts-general-aviation/elt-345/#sthash.R3PE4idZ.dpbs

Clarence

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6 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said: If the 406 transmission has GPS data the searchers should know your location. I doubt 121.5 homing is used today. 

I put this ELT in the C model:

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/pages/av/elts_zelt/aircraftspruceelt.php

It is reviewed in the September 2012 Mooney Flyer at

http://www.themooneyflyer.com/issues/MooneyFlyerSeptember2012.pdf

For disclosure: I wrote the review.

This ELT is an all-inclusive box, only wiring is to panel control switch. Antenna is an odd blade with both GPS and 406 built in. 

 

 

406 & 121.5 Mhz

https://www.acrartex.com/products/catalog/elts-general-aviation/elt-345/#sthash.R3PE4idZ.dpbs

Clarence

Clarence -- how much work (time wise) is it to install one of these? I'm in annual at the moment with a few other issues cropping up, the temptation to find a used AK 451 unit is high. Apparently only those AK units manufactured late last year and on are impacted by the FAA action.

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Not to undermine the utility of the ELT, but how many rescues of any type are due to an ELT vs a 911 call from a cell phone. We had three cases recently here in Florida of emergency landings and all off them were found by the local sheriff from a 911 call. And none of the recent airline crashes were found by the ELT but by a column of smoke or last transponder transmission. And on the water the ELT is useless for planes. 

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when I updated my panel and installed waas GPS navigator, I installed this at the same time..... 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/elt406.php?clickkey=3780

I was updating for me (I wanted rnav approaches) , the adsb mandate, and any future mandates I was anticipating.

 

Edited by tony
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10 hours ago, Marauder said:

Clarence -- how much work (time wise) is it to install one of these? I'm in annual at the moment with a few other issues cropping up, the temptation to find a used AK 451 unit is high. Apparently only those AK units manufactured late last year and on are impacted by the FAA action.

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There are many variables.  The one we just installed had the wire for the switch installed earlier, if you don't have this wire you have to remove the interior to install it.  You'll need to install the remote switch in your beautiful panel, mount the tray and antenna.  For the antenna, again we were luck to have a skin doubler already installed.

Clarence

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10 hours ago, Marauder said: Clarence -- how much work (time wise) is it to install one of these? I'm in annual at the moment with a few other issues cropping up, the temptation to find a used AK 451 unit is high. Apparently only those AK units manufactured late last year and on are impacted by the FAA action.

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There are many variables.  The one we just installed had the wire for the switch installed earlier, if you don't have this wire you have to remove the interior to install it.  You'll need to install the remote switch in your beautiful panel, mount the tray and antenna.  For the antenna, again we were luck to have a skin doubler already installed.

Clarence

Thanks Clarence. I have a remote switch already installed for my existing ELT. How is the GPS connection made? Does it require a signal cable from the panel mounted GPS?

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34 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Thanks Clarence. I have a remote switch already installed for my existing ELT. How is the GPS connection made? Does it require a signal cable from the panel mounted GPS?

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We did not connect to the GPS, as there isn't one in the plane.

Clarence

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I suspect that no rescues have taken place using 121.5 MHz ELT direction finding IF the 406 MHz side of the same ELT had already sent GPS-derived Latitude/Longitude to the emergency center.   Anyone have actual information to the contrary? 

Two reasons I figure that:  One, why DF if you can use your own GPS to go direct to the crash site + 50 feet?  Two, even if only the first 406MHz data burst gets through, the GPS data are present.  If the ELT then burns or sinks, no 121.5 MHz signal remains.

As Piloto says, cell phone E911 has been besting ELT saves in Florida in recent years, too.

When I put the new ELT into the "C" model 4 years ago I specifically looked for a model that did NOT transmit 121.5 MHz.  

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Have you wondered how terrorist are tracked down and shot, after all they have no ELT to track them down. But they have cell phones. With a cell phone you can track the location of its holder anywhere in the world, even if the holder never makes a call. The service is even available for individuals, like parents and suspecting wifes.

http://www.mobilephonelocate.com/?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=MPL&utm_term=cell phone location tracking&utm_content=Ad group %231

Cell phones are always checking in with the local cell towers to tell the network where you are so the phone company can quickly route a call to your cell phone.

Even if you have no ELT onboard your cell phone will tell authorities your whereabouts and where you came from. Even if your cell phone is destroyed the phone company has record of the last log ins. Try that with an ELT

José

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On 6/4/2016 at 3:54 PM, Piloto said:

 On long overwater flights it breaks the monotony talking to sailboats, yachts, fishing boats and others. As per latest FCC/ITU rules it is perfectly legal to transmit on marine frequencies at any altitude.

 

Way off topic, I know and apologize if this leads to many responses, but José spoke of monotony. I personally haven't, but are there people here that read books or magazines while flying long trips just to fight the boredom? You'd find me scanning the panel, looking outside or checking conditions ahead, but some of those four hour trips can be grueling.

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I installed ACK-406 as what seemed like the single most affordable solution when I redid my panel.  It felt pathetic to put the 121.5 back into the new setup after modernizing everything else.

Replacement battery costs, ease of battery change might be considerations in selecting comparably priced units.

Of course I don't really know how to measure satisfaction with a device that I pray never to need to do its job :blink:

 

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On 6/3/2016 at 0:09 PM, Marauder said:

Howdy -- my plane is in for annual and my Ameri-King 451 has failed. I noticed there is an FAA action against Ameri-King which specifically talks about removing them when found! What options are out there. I believe mine is not a 406 version. Any recommendations?

http://www.faa.gov/aircraft/safety/programs/sups/upn/media/2016/UPN_2016-2013NM460018.pdf

http://avstop.com/march_2016/faa_issues_public_notification_against_ameri_king_corp.htm

 

BTW Chris if you want to delay the 406 purchase this year, you can have my old 121.5 ELT.  It just needs a new battery and should work fine.

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A 406mhz gps equipped beacon is more accurate that cell phone triangulation. A 406mhz beacon is picked up by satellites and confirms a crash complete with your tail number instantly. They'd have to go digging for your cell number after they realize you have a problem. And finally most of this big country is out of cell phone range. The crash that started these upgrades was a lear jet that went down in kind of a known position within 20 miles of the airport... and still wasn't found for YEARS. It's a big world out there as us pilots know.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_New_Hampshire_Learjet_crash

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21 minutes ago, DXB said:

Of course I don't really know how to measure satisfaction with a device that I pray never to need to do its job :blink:

 

Sort of like when you sell your house and get pissed when you realized that you paid tens of thousands of dollars over the years in homeowners insurance and never filed a single claim.

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