Shameless opinion seeking part 2

[cowboy85]

Well I should have asked more questions in the beginning, didn't like my thoughts about pre purchase inspections by Mr. Maxwell.

O well, on to the next one....

 

Thanks for the responses

 

Matt

[rbridges]

I'd be leary of someone not willing to have a thorough prebuy performed.  Better safe than sorry.  Definitely use this forum as a sounding board.  Not only to answer questions, but someone may be located near a plane your considering.

[goterminal120]

I'm sure it had less to do with Don Maxwell doing an inspection than the fact the airplane is in very northeast Arkansas. I would find it very inconvenient to haul the airplane to Texas just for a prebuy that may or may not end in a sale. But that's just me. 

 

[gsxrpilot]

Just a couple of notes...  I said I thought this was $10K over priced.  This asking price is basically what I paid for my C and mine is much better in every way from Avionics, interior, paint, and speed mods.

Secondly, if a pre-buy is structured correctly, sales price agreed to, contract in place, deposit made, the pre-buy is just confirmation that the plane is exactly how the seller has presented it.  I would only be concerned by a pre-buy if I was withholding information from the buyer.

[Bob_Belville]

2 hours ago, goterminal120 said:

I'm sure it had less to do with Don Maxwell doing an inspection than the fact the airplane is in very northeast Arkansas. I would find it very inconvenient to haul the airplane to Texas just for a prebuy that may or may not end in a sale. But that's just me. 

 

When I bought my E the seller was willing to fly from Washington to Charlotte (300 nm) for a PPI. I paid drbill's mechanic and bought the gas burned coming down. The seller bought the gas for the return flight and spent all of a Sunday making the trip. There was no commitment required. (I was impressed with both the owner and the plane and emailed an offer the next day which was accepted. The owner delivered the plane to me and had his wife drive down to pick him up at his cost.) 

[bonal]

On Tuesday, January 26, 2016 at 10:44 PM, MitchS said:

I fly a M20C as well, and when I was looking for mine encounted one of those "owner special" modified aircraft.  As others have said, the key here is if the logbooks & a detailed pre-buy come up clean.  If they do its a decent deal.

Avionics are expensive, I just got done with a $50+K upgrade to my panel...so having some nicer avionics is a good leg up.  And remember asking price is just that, a starting point.

Hey Mitch from Iowa I don't think any one (Carusoam) sent greeting/welcome to you.  I would like to see a photo of your upgraded panel am curious what a 50 AMU M20C panel looks like. As one who has one of the most basic in the fleet I must live vicariously through panel envy

 

[steingar]

I flew my airplane to Georgia to get it sold.  I'd have flown it to Timbuktu if needed.  Something smells.

[cowboy85]

I can understand his concern about having the plane stuck somewhere. He sounded very frustrated, wasnt interested in a deposit. Bring me a check for 48k, fly the plane home.

  Said he has a guy coming Sunday with a check. No worries

[steingar]

3 hours ago, cowboy85 said:

Said he has a guy coming Sunday with a check. No worries

Yeah, I've never heard that before.

[goterminal120]

True story

[glafaille]

On January 29, 2016 at 6:29 AM, goterminal120 said:

I'm sure it had less to do with Don Maxwell doing an inspection than the fact the airplane is in very northeast Arkansas. I would find it very inconvenient to haul the airplane to Texas just for a prebuy that may or may not end in a sale. But that's just me. 

 

I get the hassle of flying the airplane somewhere for the pre-buy, but lets not forget the even greater hassle the buyer may have endured to go visit the airplane.  

I just drove 400 miles to see an aircraft that may or may not be as represented.  Then I get to drive 400 miles back.  Seems like a relatively small matter to FLY the aircraft an equal distance for a pre-buy.

Edited January 31, 2016 by glafaille

[MitchS]

On 1/29/2016 at 9:30 AM, bonal said:

Hey Mitch from Iowa I don't think any one (Carusoam) sent greeting/welcome to you.  I would like to see a photo of your upgraded panel am curious what a 50 AMU M20C panel looks like. As one who has one of the most basic in the fleet I must live vicariously through panel envy

 

Sent you a message with a few pictures!  I'm gong to do a more detailed review later in a separate post.

[Supercop0184]

Well he lowered the price of the plane in Arkansas to 45,900.  I contacted the owner of this airplane yesterday. Said I was interested, I essentially told him that I was interested in the plane, and that I could see myself making an offer, but that the purchase was contingent on a thorough prebuy at a well respected shop. I told him we didn't have to bring it here to me, and even suggested that we use Jewell aviation where he had the engine overhaul done. His response was this:

 

This plane has been scrutinized to death by two different mechanics in the last two weeks. They couldn't find anything wrong. In a way you're getting a free pre buy.  Didn't sell because their buyers couldn't come up with $47,900. They wanted it.  It's priced way too cheap for what you're getting.  $45,900 for a no-hassle, you come get it deal.  I've got several calling since I lowered the price again.  I bought a C-182, reason I'm selling.

 

I respond with this - -

Thank you for your reply. Do you have contact Information for either one of those two mechanics? Since you're an airplane owner yourself I'm sure you understand that, no matter the shape or condition of your airplane, a prebuy is a very important part of the process. Plus my bank requires a prebuy report. Perhaps one of these two mechanics can give me a prebuy report, perhaps not. I don't know. I do know that I'm a serious buyer with serious financial ability. I'm not a tire kicker; I know what I want. However, I'm not going to buy a plane without a prebuy I feel comfortable with.

And without seeing the logs. 

 

I Received nothing back from him.  The airplane is gorgeous, and I would love to have it. But I dont care if the airplane is priced at 30,000 dollars, if the roll cage is corroded, I hear it could total out the whole plane. I dont know whats up but he sure doesn't want to let another prebuy happen for some reason. 

 

 

What are y'all thoughts?

[carusoam]

See if you can arrange for a phone call.

As I have found typing here...  It is too easy to be misunderstood.  Or accidently say the wrong thing or be confused for somebody else.

A seller wants a buyer as much as a buyer wants a seller....

negotiations require an open conversation.  The perception of A hard take it or leave it attitude by either party can end the negotiation before it has a chance to start.

Asking the seller if he is open to negotiating on the price is a warm way of starting the hard part of negotiation.  There are a few ways he can answer this, no, yes or give you a price he hoping for or needs.

make sure you are really interested in it after you see it.  His keeps you from being a whacky buyer.

You have pictures, you have logs, you have seen it up close you may even have the reports from the recent PPI.  Sounds like it is time for a phone call.

at this point, you can set a price and have the sale pending on all AW issues being identified and fixed by your PPI.

You will be on the hook for a PPI.  When all AW are fixed you are now a buyer.  So plan on having the conversation on how you will handle the AW issues that come up.  Who will fix them how they get paid for, that kind of thing...

you know you have done it right when he hands you things that he no longer needs and you didn't ask for.  What does he need a Mooney cover for?  That kind of thing.  If you leave after you have made a friend, you know you have somebody that will take your call when you want to ask 'hey, what does that switch do?'  Or what kind of fuel burn did you get during the summer? Or say you are reviewing the logs a couple of weeks later when you notice you have left something back in the old hangar, now you HAVE to call him....  The seller is not your enemy, especially if you haven't bought planes all year...

there is often more to negotiation than just price.  

These are just ideas that come to mind.  I am not a plane buyer or seller or lawyer or CFI, just a PP.

Best regards,

-a-

[rob]

When I sold my airplane I would have gladly flown it to an MSC or shop of the buyers choosing so that they could have been comfortable with the purchase. Eventually, the buyer of my plane brought his own mechanic to my field and spent a day+ with the plane. They found it to be exactly as advertised and paid my asking price. Everyone left the deal happy.

Bottom line is that if a plane is honestly represented and priced appropriately, a thorough pre-buy benefits both parties. A seller shouldn't be leery of that. If the plane has been gone over by two mechanics who found nothing then the seller should feel confident that a third will also find nothing and they have no worries.

 

its a buyers market. I'd stay away from sellers who don't realize that. 

[Supercop0184]

Good points!! As a seller I try to be as approachable and helpful as I can to my prospective buyers. It just makes sense. 

Edited February 10, 2016 by Supercop0184

[carusoam]

Dp

[Supercop0184]

HAHAHA I HAD to refresh it and found that I WAS IN FACT the idiot! So i changed my comment to something that made more sense ;P 

 

 

[carusoam]

In that case, follow my lead...

i use the dp for double post.  Sometimes an edit goes awry by the time you figure it out you have a dp!

best regards,

-a-

[Supercop0184]

Why does it feel like many things in my technological life goes awry. Ill be using DP a lot! LOL!

[goterminal120]

17 hours ago, Supercop0184 said:

Well he lowered the price of the plane in Arkansas to 45,900.  I contacted the owner of this airplane yesterday. Said I was interested, I essentially told him that I was interested in the plane, and that I could see myself making an offer, but that the purchase was contingent on a thorough prebuy at a well respected shop. I told him we didn't have to bring it here to me, and even suggested that we use Jewell aviation where he had the engine overhaul done. His response was this:

 

This plane has been scrutinized to death by two different mechanics in the last two weeks. They couldn't find anything wrong. In a way you're getting a free pre buy.  Didn't sell because their buyers couldn't come up with $47,900. They wanted it.  It's priced way too cheap for what you're getting.  $45,900 for a no-hassle, you come get it deal.  I've got several calling since I lowered the price again.  I bought a C-182, reason I'm selling.

 

I respond with this - -

Thank you for your reply. Do you have contact Information for either one of those two mechanics? Since you're an airplane owner yourself I'm sure you understand that, no matter the shape or condition of your airplane, a prebuy is a very important part of the process. Plus my bank requires a prebuy report. Perhaps one of these two mechanics can give me a prebuy report, perhaps not. I don't know. I do know that I'm a serious buyer with serious financial ability. I'm not a tire kicker; I know what I want. However, I'm not going to buy a plane without a prebuy I feel comfortable with.

And without seeing the logs. 

 

I Received nothing back from him.  The airplane is gorgeous, and I would love to have it. But I dont care if the airplane is priced at 30,000 dollars, if the roll cage is corroded, I hear it could total out the whole plane. I dont know whats up but he sure doesn't want to let another prebuy happen for some reason. 

 

 

What are y'all thoughts?

A freind of mine went to see this airplane a few weeks ago, took his mechanic with him. It is in excellent shape, nice panel and flys very nicely. The owner is getting rid of it because he needs the hauling capacity of a 182. He operates off of grass on a farm. It was a done deal,but the finance company wouldn't buy off on the 6000+ hour airframe. 

I would have thought taking it to Jewell was a good compromise.........

   

[Supercop0184]

No kidding. Wow, not sure what my finance company would say. I wouldn't think it would be an issue but I'm not sure

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[carusoam]

High total time is not a hardware problem.  All the wear bits and pieces get replaced over time.  Several times if needed.

if the bank has guidelines that say the plane must be less than this many hours or less than this many years old...  You probably have the wrong lender.

I went to PNC to see if they would refinance my original loan.  They said they do aircraft financing. Their guidelines were a close match for a Gulfstream!  Fortunately, I went back to refinance my home loan at an incredibly lower rate

many large financial businesses don't know what GA planes are.  When they look them up, they see Cessna Citations and things like that.  Then their eyes start to bulge.  They think they have scored a big one.

Best regards,

-a-

[rbridges]

I'm surprised 6000 hrs is something that scares a bank.  Lots and lots of planes flying out there with more TTAF than that.

[steingar]

True story, I've told you guys I got my Mooney in a trade.  I wanted a pre buy at a Mooney Service Center, seller was less than sanguine about it for understandable reasons.  At one point he said since mine was to be inspected at a Mooney Service Center his should be inspected at a Piper Service Center.  I encouraged him to do so (my Cherokee was clean) but told him I thought it was a waste of money.  Since I was going to him, I couldn't use my own mechanic, which would have been my first priority.  He could.

I'd fly my airplane to Hell to get it inspected by Beelzebub himself it that's what it would take to get it sold.  The guy who doesn't want to can sell his to the dude with the check on Sunday.