Mooney advice

[Pictreed]

New to the site so quick intro. PP in 93, last flight '97 (yep, an adult for sure).  

Fast forward - I need to travel for work around Texas and surrounding states so work paid for IFR which I should complete the flight portion next month due to a weather discontinuance. 

I have about 160 hours and about 25 in complex. 

I was looking at RV10's but $200k is a bit much to get into. 

I'm currently looking at some E models and J models. 

I know by the time I modified the E I would be at the price of the J but I could also work on it as I go and pay it off before I started the mods. 

I'm looking for a bit advice on what to look for.  Autopilot would be nice but what's some pros and cons. 

I definitely want a Garmin 430 or better WAAS. 

The alternator in the 172RG went out while out in the countryside working on night landings for commercial so back up electrical would be nice if Mooneys have such a thing.  I don't want to experience that again any time soon.

I'll be flying an E soon to get a feel for it. 

E models I'm looking at are around '65 and the Js are around '89. 

I'm looking at one J now but I'm not sure the owner would be in a position to let me fly it. 

I'll talk to Jerry from MAPA and see if I can get some transition training, that might help. 

Anything else I should look at with these two models?

I've got to fly from Dallas to Thibodaux next week, sure wish it was in a Mooney instead of the 172RG..ha!

Thanks, Tim

[Raptor05121]

What is your budget? You can get a lavish 'E for the price of a not-so much J. Also, do you plan on carrying passengers in the back? J is longer in the back for them, but unless you just like the looks and more expensive airplane, an E may be a better choice. But given your longing for a 430 and autopilot, you might be limited, so just keep your eyes peeled. Its a buyers market right now.

[ArtVandelay]

If you HAVE to fly for work, I would look at a turbo model, maybe with FIKI. Turbo gets you above the weather quickly, FIKI gets you thru the weather on the way up,down.

How often do you have icing sigmets in TX?

[M20F]

It is fairly difficult if not impossible to get a lot of the mod's you see on older Mooney's.  The old SWTA cowling I don't believe is around anymore, nobody makes the window for the J windshield conversion, etc.  There are things like the Lopresti cowling (very expensive) and Sabermech on these forums is working on an STC for one now.  In short very expensive and not practical to turn an E into a J these days. 

That being said there are plenty of nice E's out there which are already modded and will outdo a J model, the ones with Rayjay's will come close to K speeds.  Talk to Dave at All American Aircraft they are in TX and specialize in finding/selling Mooney's.  I got mine from them.  

[Shadrach]

It's going to take you 50mins to an hour longer in the the C172RG. Just be glad you don't have to fly commercial...it'd be faster to drive.

[Shadrach]

Just now, M20F said:

It is fairly difficult if not impossible to get a lot of the mod's you see on older Mooney's.  The old SWTA cowling I don't believe is around anymore, nobody makes the window for the J windshield conversion, etc.  There are things like the Lopresti cowling (very expensive) and Sabermech on these forums is working on an STC for one now.  In short very expensive and not practical to turn an E into a J these days. 

That being said there are plenty of nice E's out there which are already modded and will outdo a J model, the ones with Rayjay's will come close to K speeds.  Talk to Dave at All American Aircraft they are in TX and specialize in finding/selling Mooney's.  I got mine from them.  

Did LASAR stop selling the windshield mod? Someone has to be making them for the factory.  SWTA stopped carrying windows in stock but Russel was happy to order them for an upfront group buy. Who told you the windshields wer no longer available?

[M20F]

2 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Did LASAR stop selling the windshield mod? Someone has to be making them for the factory.  SWTA stopped carrying windows in stock but Russel was happy to order them for an upfront group buy. Who told you the windshields wer no longer available?

There was a post here awhile ago that said windshields were a group buy (think it was 10).  I could certainly be wrong but it certainly isn't as cheap or easy to mod like it was 20-25yrs ago.  Given there are a ton of modded E's out there really can't see the reason why anyone would try these days in any case.  As FYI Russell passed and SWTA is temporarily closed. 

http://www.swta.net

 

[N601RX]

A few years ago we had about 12 people who was willing to put money down on the SWTA window conversion, but even that could not make it happen.  The laser conversion was unavailable for a couple of years while Mooney was semi closed as the cowl deck was not available. The Lasar conversion is back available now.   I found a previously uninstalled SWTA kit a couple of years ago and the owner was a regular customer of SWTA.  He was able to get them to transfer the STC to me. It was one of the better upgrades I have done.

[Pictreed]

FIKI would be great. But not TOO many icing SIGMETs. 

40k-50k would be what I am personally willing to invest. The owner said price isn't an issue but wants to wait till a distressed deal comes along to make sure he can get what he paid if we needed to sell or upgrade.  At an E model price I can do it myself. 

Mods not being available is sad.  I'm a very good composites guy but time is very limited (time is truly wasted on the youth) but it would be nice to mold an existing cowl.  Maybe even make it out of carbon fiber. 

The E is 500 SMOH ...not sure it's a 2000 TBO or not.  How would I tell?  Always hangared, beautiful paint, new gear 'pucks', clean interior.  Other than its dated, it looks newish.  

Tim

[Raptor05121]

angle-valve IO-360s are 2000SMOH. How long ago was it overhauled? how many hours per year has it flown?

[Pictreed]

I'd like the turbo because I've had some issues in the RG at 3000' airports in the summer.  Plus going to Denver with the wife would be nice. 

[N601RX]

My brother was looking for a plane to use 2-3 day a week for business travel over Alabama and Florida.  After looking at a couple of older Mooneys he decided on an RV6. Its worked out very well, he puts about 400hrs yr on it. They are very simple and cheap to maintain, it goes faster than my F, will out climb it and uses less fuel. They went to the Bahamas's three times on it last year.

[Pictreed]

If I can get a nice E for $45 it would be more than half what I was looking at an RV7 for. 

But I'm not opposed to going the RV route if it was built by the right person. 

[smccray]

8 minutes ago, Pictreed said:

I'd like the turbo because I've had some issues in the RG at 3000' airports in the summer.  Plus going to Denver with the wife would be nice. 

For this situation you're probably looking at a Bravo or an Acclaim if you're preferring a turbo over an NA model.  The K model is 210 or 220 HP versus 200 HP in the NA E or J.

I've taken my J off at gross weight out of centennial in Denver in the summer, density altitude over 8K, and I still had 4-500 FPM climb off the runway.  It takes a different technique than I use in TX, but that's the nature of the beast.

My J is at Addison and I've been talking about moving a different direction.  '87 M20J 205. 1024 lbs of useful load, or 640 lbs with full fuel.  Let me know if you're interested in taking a look at it.

[Shadrach]

25 minutes ago, M20F said:

There was a post here awhile ago that said windshields were a group buy (think it was 10).  I could certainly be wrong but it certainly isn't as cheap or easy to mod like it was 20-25yrs ago.  Given there are a ton of modded E's out there really can't see the reason why anyone would try these days in any case.  As FYI Russell passed and SWTA is temporarily closed. 

http://www.swta.net

I am aware and was sorry to learn of Russell's passing. LASAR is still selling the kits for just under 3AMUs. Not a bad deal if you're a motivated wrench and have an experienced mechanic.

http://www.lasar.com/mod-details.asp?id=3

[Pictreed]

5 minutes ago, smccray said:

For this situation you're probably looking at a Bravo or an Acclaim if you're preferring a turbo over an NA model.  The K model is 210 or 220 HP versus 200 HP in the NA E or J.

I've taken my J off at gross weight out of centennial in Denver in the summer, density altitude over 8K, and I still had 4-500 FPM climb off the runway.  It takes a different technique than I use in TX, but that's the nature of the beast.

My J is at Addison and I've been talking about moving a different direction.  '87 M20J 205. 1024 lbs of useful load, or 640 lbs with full fuel.  Let me know if you're interested in taking a look at it.

I'd love to see it.  I learned to fly at Monarch in '92.  Thought my flying days were over till this year. 

I work in Wylie, train at Meacham so I'm in the area every day. (Or at least passing through). 

[Pictreed]

That Lasar link renewed my hope

Not to offend, but the E looks a bit dated but the mods will clean it up. 

But then again it's a couple years older than me so...

[M20F]

Tim - You are losing me a bit in your posts. You are indicating $50k as a budget but then you reference "owner"?  Are you looking at a partnership, what is total budget, etc.?  Can you explain your budget, mission, etc. a bit more?

[HRM]

6 minutes ago, Pictreed said:

Not to offend, but the E looks a bit dated but the mods will clean it up. 

But then again it's a couple years older than me so...

Young whippersnapper!

[Pictreed]

The owner of the company doesn't mind the 100k-200k range. But his concern is resale which doesn't concern me for a few different reasons. 

To get a plane to meet the mission goals I am willing to purchase it for the $50k range but not much more since it would impact some investments I'm working on.  

However its very possible I could talk the owner into a J.  Especially when he sees the bill for the rental next week.  Lol

The design department seems to shut down at my office when I'm not there so the fact I can get to a job site and back quickly is a huge asset.  It increases my value to offset the difference in buying my a $80k company vehicle and being gone from the office. 

So it's confusing because it could go two different ways so hopefully this sheds some light on the situation. 

I need to gather info for my 'presentation'. 

[N601RX]

Be sure you have a good understand what the FAA will allow for reimbursement under these conditions. The interpretation of the FARS are not as straight forward as they seem for an employee of a company.  Self employed is easier and the plane can be a large deduction.

[Pictreed]

It shouldn't be too long before I'm finished with the Commercial license but for use as transportation now, I believe it is allowed now since my job does not depend on it.

What I'm saying is that I will not get paid for flying.  It's just a way for the company to save some money. 

[M20F]

5 minutes ago, Pictreed said:

It shouldn't be too long before I'm finished with the Commercial license but for use as transportation now, I believe it is allowed now since my job does not depend on it.

What I'm saying is that I will not get paid for flying.  It's just a way for the company to save some money. 

The distinction with the FAA is not payment but compensation (a free flight can in some circumstances be considered compensation).  There are specific and complicated rules governing all this.  For example if you take a flight and bring a colleague along you cannot claim reimbursement (http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/agc/pol_adjudication/agc200/interpretations/data/interps/2009/mangiamele%20-%20(2009)%20legal%20interpretation.pdf).  

If you and your boss are looking to get an airplane for company use would reccomend seeing both a lawyer and accountant that specialize in that area.  If you intend to fly for work as a PPL in any capacity find a good CFI versed on the rules to cover what you can and cannot do.  The Internet is a great source for many things but in cases like this you will be better served getting professional advice. 

[Pictreed]

I'll see what I can find out.  I don't want to get into anything considered commercial or charter so I shouldn't have mentioned commercial since its just for knowledge and possibly insurance. 

Either way I'll run it by a lawyer. 

 

Thanks 

[Ron McBride]

Lasar converted the windshield in my F to a J in August of 2015.

Ron