Mooney flying in the Rockies

[Jrob]

Hi all.  I am a newbie at mooneyspace so dumb it down a little.  I am currently in the process of completing my PP and looking forward to purchasing within the next 6 months to a year.  I have always wanted to own and fly a Mooney, but I want to get some input from the experienced flyers out there.  I live in Lubbock, TX (KLBB) and own a house in Gunnison, CO (KGUC).  Ideally, I would like to be able to fly there for a quick weekend as opposed to driving there 4 or 5 times per year with total trip of 20+ hours.  Besides the obvious mountain flying courses and slowly building experience in the mountain environment, what are everyone's thoughts on non-turbo, normalizer or turbo.  The remainder of the planes flying would be in west and central Texas with average terrain of 2500-3500 MSL.  Ideally, I would like to purchase in the $60-70K range.  Any input is most appreciated.

[LFOD]

 Can you give us anymore information on your mission profile (number of people/baggage)?  For that price point, a turbo normalized F would be your best bet. 

 

[Jrob]

A typical mission profile would be: me, my wife and 5 year old son (400#) and probably 75# of cargo.  Having a house in gunnison means that we rarely have to transport large items such as skis, gear, etc.  I friend who is also a new pilot has expressed intrest in partnering on a plane, so the price point could be "stretched" a little, but his typical mission will be < 1.5 hour of flying mostly in West Texas the turbo is much less important to him. 

[KSMooniac]

I concur with Matt and think a turbo-normalized F (or maybe an E) is your best choice in that budget range. 

I've taken my J into and over the Rockies (and Sierras) a few times and long for a turbo-normalizer.  It removes a lot of the worry about takeoff performance, and more importantly, climb rate out west.  It also pays off for XC work in the flatlands too as you'll be able to climb a bit quicker out of the TX heat to cooler air and enjoy higher true airspeeds up there as well, even if you don't want to climb high enough to use oxygen.

[flyguy241]

I have flown a M20J/201 into Angle Fire quite a few times with very little trouble.  Just don't load it to max weight and try to take off in the heat of the day and you will be fine.  We try to get there and leave as early in the morning as we can and fly as light as possible.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Get a Turbo/normalized airplane.  TN M20F is probably perfect.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Does anyone know this plane?  It's been for sale a while...

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1967-MOONEY-M20F-EXEC-21/1172847.htm

[Ron McBride]

I was going to buy this plane 4 years ago from the previous owner. He left a real sour taste with me. The motor had 1600 hrs +/-, metal in the filter and metal in the oil sample. I talked with Jimmy since, he told me recent samples were good. The paint, prop and panel have done since. Has not been flown much since. Buyer beware.

Ron

[M016576]

Here's my plug for a non-turbo in the rockies.... it's doable, depending on where and how you fly....

I fly from China Lake to Sun Valley, Idaho on a fairly regular basis.  it's a 3.5 hr flight in a M20J at 8500', LOP.  The valley's through Nevada are parallel to my course, so I only have to cross two pretty small passes.  The weather tends to hug the peaks, but you're so far below MEA, even at 9500' that picking up an IFR clearance would require major climbing + oxgyen.  In the summer, it's a bit bumpy.  In the winter, though, you've got icing to contend with....

If you're planning on heading to Colorado in the winter (ski season), then realize that any sort of legit IMC flight is probably going to be off the table (due to icing).  With that in mind, you need to be flexible in terms of your travel dates.  A turbo may be able to get you climbing over weather, but you can't decend back through it.... so in my books, if the weather is looking poor, it's best to not even try in a light civil in winter time in the mountains.

A turbo will give you better performance at higher altitudes.  If you really want to take advantage of the turbo, though, you kind of need to be up in the teens, which requires oxygen.  When I made the decision to go NA, knowing that I'd be flying through the mountains for 50% of my flights, I weighed the following factors:

A) I looked at my route:  It doesn't require flight in the moronosphere (120-FL200)

cost/benifit: did I need the turbo for the other 50% of my flights?- nope(coastal flights in SOCAL).

C) would you rather hit some bumps a little lower in the summer, or have a bit smoother air but wear/use O2? (option A for me... we don't mind the bumps... my wife sleeps through them).

D) realize that in the winter, the turbo may get you up and over weather, but you can't go back down into it (ice).  Nov-Mar, they may be from the surface up past the FL's.

 

The advantages of the turbo have been mentioned already: better T/O performance at higher altitudes.  Ability to cross really tall passes.  Faster.

The disadvantages: a bit more expensive to operate (when you add in the O2 + extra fuel burn + potential turbo maintenance).

I think the TN 20F is a great option.  Right now, you can find some nice VFR barebones J's for mid-60's, too, though... they might be a good option as well.  Whatever you pick, make sure you get one that's been flown regularly, with a great maintenance history!  if you don't... then by the time it does have a great maintenance history, you'll have paid for it (trust me on this one: a lesson you don't need to learn!)!!!!!

[DaV8or]

Quote: M016576

If you're planning on heading to Colorado in the winter (ski season), then realize that any sort of legit IMC flight is probably going to be off the table (due to icing).  With that in mind, you need to be flexible in terms of your travel dates.  A turbo may be able to get you climbing over weather, but you can't decend back through it.... so in my books, if the weather is looking poor, it's best to not even try in a light civil in winter time in the mountains.

[Jrob]

Thanks to everyone for their input.  I should probably clarify a little.  Our typical winter trip is usually for several days (5-6) and we typically don't mind driving when we are able to stay a few days.  We have on more than a few occasions had to prolong our trip because even the road passes are not very passable.  I am hoping that the ability to fly will afford a few more trips from May - October which is my favorite time of year in southern Colorado mainly because the fly fishing is impossible to beat that time of year.  During those conditions, I was wondering if turbo would add some degree of safety on high DA days.

I whole heartedly agree about the personal airliner comment.  Family friend of mine is one of those statistics thanks to having to be back for a meeting. 

[67M20F]

A n/a F will do the job...

I flew mine around the high uintas for about 500hrs and she did all I wanted her to do and more.

How long are the strips you plan on using? If they are 5k then you will be fine at gross, even hot she won't climb fast but she will still climb, if you want more saftey then keep it light.

I flew out of alot of strips that were 5-7K and in the 90's and never had any issues, the highest DA I have flown out of at near gross was 11,200 and the climb sucked almost not there but she still climbed.

Saying that if I had the money to support a turbo or normalized F I would have one..

[67M20F]

And one more thing Mooneys love the thin air they were built to fly high....