helitim Posted June 5, 2015 Report Posted June 5, 2015 What would be the best route to transition LA airspace going from Livemore, Ca (KLVK) to Gillespie Field(KSEE)? Looking at the maps it appears that KLVK - KEMT- F70- KSEE would keep me clear of most of the worst spots. Is there a better VFR corridor? What are the best altitudes thru that area? We will be flying down and back on Sunday. Thank you, Tim Quote
wishboneash Posted June 5, 2015 Report Posted June 5, 2015 That looks like a good route avoiding most of class B and class C if you stay under 7500 in the LA basin. I just prefer to file IFR in VMC and not deal with the headache that is LA airspace! Quote
Jerry 5TJ Posted June 5, 2015 Report Posted June 5, 2015 File IFR and you'll get LHS V459 SLI and then southward which is pretty direct from the Livermore area. Quote
mpg Posted June 5, 2015 Report Posted June 5, 2015 Well,,, Why not just fly SxSE to Catalina then SE to El Cajon Quote
Ron McBride Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 If you want to go VFR, go above 10,000 and descend to avoid the Class B and C airspace. This is what I will be doing in 2 weeks. Ron Quote
kmyfm20s Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 This is the route that most people I know use for a VFR flight. Quote
kmyfm20s Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Sorry I thought you where going down the coast but you going the east side of LA. Here is another fly chart that can help. Quote
golfpilot Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 If I were to do this flight VFR, I'd fly direct to the mission bay vor then transition montgomery class d for ksee. I would fly 7500 down the state then climb to 11500 across the grape vine and class B then descend as necessary from there. Shouldn't take you a minute over 2:30 startup to shutdown in a M20J Quote
helitim Posted June 6, 2015 Author Report Posted June 6, 2015 Thank you all for the additional info. Looking forward to it. Tim Quote
mpg Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 This is the route that most people I know use for a VFR flight. image.jpg I love this ,,, fly 3500 squak 1201,, vfr, dont talk to anybody! Quote
mpg Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 What would be the best route to transition LA airspace going from Livemore, Ca (KLVK) to Gillespie Field(KSEE)? Looking at the maps it appears that KLVK - KEMT- F70- KSEEwould keep me clear of most of the worst spots. Is there a better VFR corridor? What are the best altitudes thru that area? We will be flying down and back on Sunday. Thank you, Tim Let me be off topic,, please... Sooo, the route IDs above can be found on jep plates, after you ID the airports on your chart,,, right? Now ,,,, How or where can I find these IDS to know the simple names of places on my chart, so I also know your plan? Why dont folks just right this stuff using english so we can all follow along? Im sure there is a simple answer to my seemingly stupid question. Then I will say Doh! smack my head.... Quote
mpg Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Sooo since I am up all night,,, thought I might get some respect if I did some of my own research... Using the google and their maps I have found where Livermore is and its 465 sm to Gillespie,, with LA right on the way,OK.. Sooo the poster wants to make this trip and Ease his way past LA,, So his first waypoint is at 341 sm to El Monty about 24 sm E of LA,,,!!! Right through the airspace..... Then to French Valley 90 sm SE into the desert! Then SSE 36 sm to El Cajon, his destination... It strikes me that he did a pretty good of running right into the LA that he wanted to go around... Quote
Bob - S50 Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Sooo since I am up all night,,, thought I might get some respect if I did some of my own research... Using the google and their maps I have found where Livermore is and its 465 sm to Gillespie,, with LA right on the way,OK.. Sooo the poster wants to make this trip and Ease his way past LA,, So his first waypoint is at 341 sm to El Monty about 24 sm E of LA,,,!!! Right through the airspace..... Then to French Valley 90 sm SE into the desert! Then SSE 36 sm to El Cajon, his destination... It strikes me that he did a pretty good of running right into the LA that he wanted to go around... You have to think in three dimensions. I have to do the same thing when I fly into San Carlos (SQL). You cannot avoid the San Francisco Class B laterally, but you can avoid it vertically. I have to do the same thing every time I fly into and out of my home airport in Auburn, WA. Fly below the Seattle class B even though I'm smack in the middle of it laterally. I've looked at going through the LA area too for a future flight from Arizona to San Louis Obispo. Following airways close to the mountains on the north lets you stay below the class B, above the Class C's and D's, and still be at a reasonable altitude. Bob Quote
mpg Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Hey Bob - S50 Good write up.. I was used to the third dimension too,, flying from brem nat over west seattle into boeing,, under seattle tca. auburn would be a piece of cake,, did I ever tell you about my outa gas landing in a auburn pasture in the 80s? maybe we could get together some day. Wanted to add,, we can still fly the seahawks transition east or west right over seatac at 1700 msl! Quote
bonal Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Be prepared So Cal may divert you from your intended plan. Three trips to Palomar with LVK as a waypoint first time was IFR next two were VFR both were fun and great learning experiences. Looking at the San Diego bravo you might want to think about a more easterly route to make a westerly approach to Your destination. What worked great for my VFR was Palmdale then pass over El Cajon pass then San Bernadino then to the San Diego VOR hang a right 195 deg to El Cajon. 9500 is good for the pass but be ready to descend once you enter the LA basin because you will be crossing Ontarios approach. ATC comm is real busy so keep a sharp ear and eye. I really enjoyed the experience. Quote
kmyfm20s Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 I would recommend flight following. The student traffic in the area of KSEE/KMYF can be a little overwhelming these days. Just a little trick I use when I flight home is to request a practice approach in VFR conditions. This way you will not get dumped into the class B tunnel in the most congested part of San Diego trying to get your turn to call the tower, it can be crazy. If you do this they will radar vector you to the east side of the SD class B since they normally land runway LOC 27. I would start the request for the practice approach just after F70 and they will let you know which controller will be able to help you out. Quote
bonal Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Plus one on flight following I'd advise contacting Nor Cal departure as soon as you begin Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Just remember when planning a VFR flight this time of year that the marine layer can interrupt the best laid plans of trying to navigate the airspace. You can make it on top, but you may have a long deviation at your destination to get under if you can at all. The afternoons are better for VFR. 1 Quote
carqwik Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Go IFR if you can... If you cannot do that (or don't want to), I would highly recommend using flight following. A more typical route that avoids the LAX Bravo is to fly towards the Pomona VOR along the east side of the San Fernando Valley, depart Pomona on the 164 degree radial to join V23 which then follows the coastline all the way towards Mission Bay then going east towards KSEE. You can probably do that at 5500 feet before dropping down to 3500 near the San Diego Bravo. You could get lucky and SoCal might send you direct to KSEE from the Oceanside VOR...but no chance of flying through the LAX Bravo VFR ever other than the defined mini routes or through the LAX corridor. Quote
Joe Zuffoletto Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 This flight is a piece of cake. Fly LVK-VNY. Call SoCal approach about 20 miles north of VNY and request to transition the Class B via the Hollywood Park Route at 9,500'. You MUST be at 9,500' going that direction (8,500' going back). From VNY you fly outbound on the 140 radial until you overfly the Queen Mary in Long Beach. Tell SoCal your destination is Gillespie and they'll vector you along until you're out of their airspace. The Hollywood Park Route is depicted on the LA terminal chart. In any event, be talkiing to ATC. The controllers are excellent and helpful. My personal opinion is that it's quite risky to transition the LA basin in stealth mode. Quote
cliffy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 Grew up there, learned to fly there, remember the start of it all with the TCAs and now what it has grown into. Joe Z has the best plan above. Very easy to do that way. Don't go stealth mode unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing. Quote
FlyDave Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 I'll add that when flying VFR I have gotten more bravo clearances through the San Diego (mostly offered by ATC without my request) than anywhere else. The controllers for San Diego are very helpful. But having 2 bravo areas to deal with it would definitely be easier to go IFR. Quote
cliffy Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 San Diego will be no problem The controllers are the best for what you want to do as mentioned Flight Following with them is easy. Just watch the weather with the morning marine layer. We call it the June Gloom. Its always there but goes away by noon most of the time. Quote
MB65E Posted June 6, 2015 Report Posted June 6, 2015 You could do the entire routing with out talking to LA, but I'd at least pick up SoCal/La center for traffic advisories. I'd file IFR for 11k go over the top of LAX then head on down to SD. SoCal is great to work with. I'd let Center worry about it all Due to the TFRs, Restritced airspace near Pendleton, and then Miramar, and then the marine layer...and then... -Matt Quote
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