cliffy Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 “One day the stars will be as familiar to each man as the landmarks, the curves, and the hills on the road that leads to his door, and one day this will be an airborne life. But by then men will have forgotten how to fly; they will be passengers on machines whose conductors are carefully promoted to a familiarity with labelled buttons, and in whose minds knowledge of the sky and the wind and the way of weather will be extraneous as passing fiction.” ― Beryl Markham, West with the Night
carusoam Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 Cliffs, Sounds like the author is describing their vision of Heaven. It is better to fly East, than to 'fly West'... 'Flying West' is a one way trip. Collectively, we are not there yet. Gotten close enough, once, -a- 1
Rhumbline Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 If we haven't reached it, we are well on our way. Even I, a card carrying Luddite, was a little unnerved when my ForeFlight/Bad Elf combination was rendered useless for anything but flight planning by the recent Ios 8.3 debacle. I had to remind myself that I have a chart wallet full of current paper which I actually remember how to use. I'm looking forward to leaving the gizmo behind and flying somewhere the old fashioned way this weekend. I don't think too many younger or recent inductees to flying would feel the same after having been ensconced behind a bunch of colorful screens that are doing all the thinking. As the fictional Admiral Kirk once stated of his training crew ,"I don't think these kids can steer."
cliffy Posted April 16, 2015 Author Report Posted April 16, 2015 Most of my flights involve turning off all the radios (Xponder excepted) and just looking out the window for 2 or 3 hours. 1
Andy95W Posted April 16, 2015 Report Posted April 16, 2015 “One day the stars will be as familiar to each man as the landmarks, the curves, and the hills on the road that leads to his door, and one day this will be an airborne life. But by then men will have forgotten how to fly; they will be passengers on machines whose conductors are carefully promoted to a familiarity with labelled buttons, and in whose minds knowledge of the sky and the wind and the way of weather will be extraneous as passing fiction.”― Beryl Markham, West with the Night Great book, great quotation, great warning for ourselves and our future selves. But to eschew technological advancements because of a yearning for the good old days and nostalgia does a disservice to engineers who designed technologically advanced airplanes, or the pilots who study diligently to understand and master them. My example is the modern RNAV standard arrival procedures at many major airports. I'll use LAX as an example. Airplanes now typically descend at flight idle from FL280 down to about 2,000 AGL and never miss a crossing restriction. Fuel efficient? Yes Safer? Yes "Labelled button" pushing? Also yes. But I've also seen the computers miscalculate descents, and the pilots have to be able understand the discrepency and step in with an understanding of 3 NM:1000' descent paths and slowing by 10 kt/ NM. So I think it takes both the technological understanding and stick and rudder skills.
cliffy Posted April 17, 2015 Author Report Posted April 17, 2015 Agreed but the twain don't always meet at the end of the runway! Just like Doctors- someone had to graduate at the bottom of the class! And the book was written in 1942 Somewhat prophetic maybe?
Andy95W Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 Definitely prophetic. And I'm with you 100%- when I'm alone in my Mooney, I love it's old school nature and I don't talk to nobody if I don't have to.
neilpilot Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 ..........was a little unnerved when my ForeFlight/Bad Elf combination was rendered useless for anything but flight planning by the recent Ios 8.3 debacle. ............. Grateful my partner warned me before I had a chance to do the iOS 8.3 dance. But there's something I don't understand. If the BadElf is off line due to iOS8.3, doesn't Foreflight continue to provide IAPs and charts, just without GPS following? You are one of may pilots that have called Foreflight "useless" without BadElf connectivity, and several have moaned that this is why they need paper charts. Why useless when it's simply GPS-less? BTW I'm using FlyQ, and carry a $40 Android tablet with a free app that provides current charts and IAPs should my iPad fail, which it never has. And I don't couple the android to a GPS.
Rhumbline Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 Grateful my partner warned me before I had a chance to do the iOS 8.3 dance. But there's something I don't understand. If the BadElf is off line due to iOS8.3, doesn't Foreflight continue to provide IAPs and charts, just without GPS following? You are one of may pilots that have called Foreflight "useless" without BadElf connectivity, and several have moaned that this is why they need paper charts. Why useless when it's simply GPS-less? BTW I'm using FlyQ, and carry a $40 Android tablet with a free app that provides current charts and IAPs should my iPad fail, which it never has. And I don't couple the android to a GPS. Sans GPS, I stated that it was useless for anything but flight planning. It is still a fine tool for that but I would not have purchased a subscription to ForeFlight or an iPad for that. It is the GPS component which provides geo-referencing in flight and the other information that GPS affords that makes it worthwhile. Otherwise, I much prefer having a large piece of paper that I can readily fold up or spread out a bit and instantly orient as I wish. I find the origami much easier than screwing around with the electronic device for merely looking at a map. Likewise, I just put a bookmark in the AFD and I can easily reference the relevant airports. There's no doubt that the technology has a "Gee Whizz" appeal but I'll take the simple reliability of the paper over the device on any day. It's also worth noting that I no longer fly IFR. If I did, however, I would not rely solely on the gadget to regurgitate the plate I want. 1
ryoder Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 I find flight is more enjoyable with music on and eyes outside.
DaV8or Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 Things change and for the better. For example- How many crews are there in the world that could sail this ship? How many people can hitch up a team of horses and pull a wagon? How many of us plow fields with a steam engine? How many of us could actually get a Model T Ford started, much less drive it down the road? Things change and IMO, for the better. While we are nostalgic about the old ways and hobbyists love to learn and practice the old ways for prosperity and entertainment, nobody really misses these things in their daily lives. I believe that the re birth of GA depends on flying getting easier, not harder. Taking to the skies for efficient travel, or enjoyment should not be a hard thing to do, but rather a simple thing to do. I personally have no problem trading levers and dials and gauges for labeled buttons. To the OP- No, we are not there yet. The newspapers full of wrecked airplanes and dead people is the evidence that it is still more than just pushing labeled buttons.
1964-M20E Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 Great quote and could be true in some circumstance. I like the melding of old and new for most things. The old is familiar and comfortable the new is exciting and challenging yet in many ways easier.
Shadrach Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 How many of us could actually get a Model T Ford started, much less drive it down the road? Things change and IMO, for the better. While we are nostalgic about the old ways and hobbyists love to learn and practice the old ways for prosperity and entertainment, nobody really misses these things in their daily lives. I believe that the re birth of GA depends on flying getting easier, not harder. Taking to the skies for efficient travel, or enjoyment should not be a hard thing to do, but rather a simple thing to do. I personally have no problem trading levers and dials and gauges for labeled buttons. To the OP- No, we are not there yet. The newspapers full of wrecked airplanes and dead people is the evidence that it is still more than just pushing labeled buttons. I've drive a few different Model T's. I wish my airplane was modern enough to have the lever that's labeled as G.
DaV8or Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 I've drive a few different Model T's. I wish my airplane was modern enough to have the lever that's labeled as G. Well, technically you do because what is labeled as G is the throttle lever, but I'm pretty sure you meant the spark advance that you can't see in this picture as it is opposite the throttle on the other side of the steering column. Good on you for having T driving experience. I encourage anyone that ever has the opportunity to take the wheel of one to do so. It is a unique experience and really fun to think of half of America chugging and bouncing down the road in these things. They're a real hoot as a hobby. Nobody want's to drive one now for transportation today, but to the point of this thread, I would argue that the average Model T driver of yore knew more about mechanics and engine management that the vast majority of drivers today. To me that's good thing. That means that driving now is easy, simple and enjoyable. That's the way that aviation should continue to work toward.
Shadrach Posted April 17, 2015 Report Posted April 17, 2015 Well, technically you do because what is labeled as G is the throttle lever, but I'm pretty sure you meant the spark advance that you can't see in this picture as it is opposite the throttle on the other side of the steering column. Good on you for having T driving experience. I encourage anyone that ever has the opportunity to take the wheel of one to do so. It is a unique experience and really fun to think of half of America chugging and bouncing down the road in these things. They're a real hoot as a hobby. Nobody want's to drive one now for transportation today, but to the point of this thread, I would argue that the average Model T driver of yore knew more about mechanics and engine management that the vast majority of drivers today. To me that's good thing. That means that driving now is easy, simple and enjoyable. That's the way that aviation should continue to work toward. I had a buddy in high school who's family had 4 different cars all circa late teens to mid 20s. One of them was a roadster (?? it was a 2 plc convertible) It's been about a 2 decades since I drove one. My memory is advancing spark with my right hand. I also seem to remember that the transmission was a 2 speed controlled by pedal position.
cliffy Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Posted April 18, 2015 Lets see- Fore topgallant, fore topsail, fore course sail Next going aft- Main topgallant, main topsail, main course sail Next aft- (if memory serves me right) Gaffsail and then the spanker below that. No jibs or staysls flying in picture shown! And the ship appears to be perpendicular the the light wind (@ 5 mph) with only the spanker drawing. 2
Rhumbline Posted April 18, 2015 Report Posted April 18, 2015 ...or mizzen tops'l. If in doubt, you can always reference 'The Young Sea Officer's Sheet Anchor'. At least the sails are not back winded so the diesel is probably not driving the screw. 1
cliffy Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Posted April 18, 2015 I knew my Master's License would come in handy one day! :-) :-) :-)
cliffy Posted April 18, 2015 Author Report Posted April 18, 2015 OOPS! On second look it seems there is a Flying Jib run out.
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